John Stones - 2016/17 performances

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Andrew___K said:
I've just pointed out that Stones' performances are regarded as pretty poor by a wide audience, not only in England. His club colours don't matter, doubt that l'Equipe are biased against City. He's an average defender right now, no need to pretend otherwise.
As for the list, I agree, he wasn't that bad. Can't take such ratings seriously anyway.
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Yeah, I wasn't criticizing you in any way. I actually found it interesting to see what a French paper thought. And you're preaching to the choir in terms of being concerned about stones' defensive abilities.
 
Callum Ramsey said:
I agree in regards to stones but would like to know why you think sterling would spend a considerable time on the bench. I mean I would understand if you think he'd be part of a rotation as I believe that will the case for all the attacking players next season but I find it hard to believe he will be a peripheral figure. I know many think he will be the one to make way for b.silva but to me unless he regresses or shows no improvement in front of goal(scoring), I'm certain pep trusts him far more than many here think him to be. Out of sane, b.silva and him, he had a hand in more goals than the both of them last season so this idea that he will barely feature for the team next season has not much to base off.
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For me, he does everything right until the point it matters. Pep will have other options next season.
 
mosssideblue said:
Sterling was being discussed :)
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My bad, skimmed through and missed the post you quoted.

I think Sterling will be used as he has this season; as a traditional right winger when we need to hold a wide front line with Sane similarly on the left. There are few players who Pep trusts to play with the inverted winger role to an acceptable level as it's fairly high risk in term of chance creation.

Bernardo can potentially fill that role on the right and Sanchez obviously on the left so I think it gives us different options with our wide play. Like at Bayern, Pep will have the choice to have right and left footers on their natural sides to create chances for a central forward (like Costa and Coman) or have two confident - and more importantly successful - dribblers to come inside and fashion chances for themselves (like Ribery and Robben).

Personally, I think our lack of options on the wings last season gave us much less of a variety in ways to break down stubborn and packed defences. The other downside is that we couldn't rotate when players were underperforming or burnt out.
 
Stonesy lad looked well rusty always takes time to get up to speed and close season he probably hasn't been too fussed
Started to stand up and defend as the game went on,the free kick Giroud got for the first goal was daylight robbery same as the ones in the cup semi final Stones standing his ground waiting for the ball to arrive and Giroud backs in taking the f.in piss
 
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He hadnt played for a while before the France game. Ended the season on something of a downer, due to injury Dropped against Scotland. Then played in a completely unfamiliar, fragile defence. He was never going to be MOTM.

I expect Pep will re-build his confidence during pre season and we'll see a much improved Stones, playing in a much improved defence, next season.
 
cibaman said:
He hadnt played for a while before the France game. Ended the season on something of a downer, due to injury Dropped against Scotland. Then played in a completely unfamiliar, fragile defence. He was never going to be MOTM.

I expect Pep will re-build his confidence during pre season and we'll see a much improved Stones, playing in a much improved defence, next season.
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Lets hope so as based on last season with us and Everton prior, not currently good enough.
 
mosssideblue said:
Lets hope so as based on last season with us and Everton prior, not currently good enough.
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With both Stones and Mangala we spent huge sums on players who had just had a poor season. I know the whole "class is permanent form is temporary" is true broadly speaking but when buying young players who you are very much relying on to "kick on" it strikes me that gambling large amounts on a player whose form has significantly dipped is not a great strategy.
 
cibaman said:
He hadnt played for a while before the France game. Ended the season on something of a downer, due to injury Dropped against Scotland. Then played in a completely unfamiliar, fragile defence. He was never going to be MOTM.

I expect Pep will re-build his confidence during pre season and we'll see a much improved Stones, playing in a much improved defence, next season.
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That would be great.

But considering how much effort is going into rebuilding the rest of the team, should we be going into the next season relying on that happening ?
 
Neville Kneville said:
That would be great.

But considering how much effort is going into rebuilding the rest of the team, should we be going into the next season relying on that happening ?
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I know we agree on this but without wanting to just repeating myself (actually fuck it, I will just repeat myself), I just can't get my head around anyone thinking we don't need a centre back. We are strengthening other areas phenomenally, the odd person is saying that we don't need so many players for the three attacking positions but most people think it is fine to spend 50m on Sanchez in an area where we are looking pretty strong. But as soon as you get on to the subject of centre backs so many either think we are fine as we are or that we'd have to get rid of one to bring one in. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted to get shot of one of Kolarov, Otamendi or Stones (in that order) but it wouldn't worry me in the slightest if we just added a quality centre back to the squad. I can see it happening though that we spend fortunes all over the pitch but go into the season absolutely banking on Kompany staying fit all season and/or Stones to make this miraculous leap in progress in the next couple of months. We have spent a few years neglecting full back areas, we will just be shifting that squad imbalance on to another area.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I know we agree on this but without wanting to just repeating myself (actually fuck it, I will just repeat myself), I just can't get my head around anyone thinking we don't need a centre back. We are strengthening other areas phenomenally, the odd person is saying that we don't need so many players for the three attacking positions but most people think it is fine to spend 50m on Sanchez in an area where we are looking pretty strong. But as soon as you get on to the subject of centre backs so many either think we are fine as we are or that we'd have to get rid of one to bring one in. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted to get shot of one of Kolarov, Otamendi or Stones (in that order) but it wouldn't worry me in the slightest if we just added a quality centre back to the squad. I can see it happening though that we spend fortunes all over the pitch but go into the season absolutely banking on Kompany staying fit all season and/or Stones to make this miraculous leap in progress in the next couple of months. We have spent a few years neglecting full back areas, we will just be shifting that squad imbalance on to another area.
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Your last line covers it perfectly.

All these years needing fullbacks more & more & 'getting by' each season but being clearly hampered, just to gamble on the same happening at cb.

Pep himself has specified it as a priority, so imo we must be after one even if the various itks aren't aware of it.

I imagine it's all about trying to get the right player.

If that's not possible, I would settle for a Demichelis type signing, just as inurance for a season.
 
I'd say he was pretty decent for nearly a year of his time with us but it took him time to get acclimatized to the prem and in his final season his legs just went completely. There were times I felt sorry for him because I felt he knew he'd gone but would still get thrown into the odd game.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I know we agree on this but without wanting to just repeating myself (actually fuck it, I will just repeat myself), I just can't get my head around anyone thinking we don't need a centre back. We are strengthening other areas phenomenally, the odd person is saying that we don't need so many players for the three attacking positions but most people think it is fine to spend 50m on Sanchez in an area where we are looking pretty strong. But as soon as you get on to the subject of centre backs so many either think we are fine as we are or that we'd have to get rid of one to bring one in. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted to get shot of one of Kolarov, Otamendi or Stones (in that order) but it wouldn't worry me in the slightest if we just added a quality centre back to the squad. I can see it happening though that we spend fortunes all over the pitch but go into the season absolutely banking on Kompany staying fit all season and/or Stones to make this miraculous leap in progress in the next couple of months. We have spent a few years neglecting full back areas, we will just be shifting that squad imbalance on to another area.
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Can't argue with any of these points, so I'll just add my 5 cents.

Taking into perspective the major transfers that are happening now, I think it's safe to say that CB position, as well as DM, will be strengthened sooner or later, the only questions are 'by whom' and 'when'. Guardiola isn't blind, he sees more than we do.

I guess the hesitation with new CBs is explained by a major change of transfer policy that is happening now but isn't fully acknowledged yet: we're not buying average squad players anymore, it's curtains for delphs, fernandos, negredos and dinhos (with all my respect to Fernandinho). It's either high class or nothing, it's the only way to get to the top when Madrid is buying Theo and Mbappe to be Marcelo's and Ronaldo's understudies. The 'concentration of capital' in football is becoming ridiculous, and until UEFA makes some sensible changes, we need to follow the same route, unfortunately.

Nev Knev suggests a Demichelis type of signing, which I strongly disagree. We're restricted with the number of foreign sport so heavily that any additional average player will become an immovable dross as soon as next summer. We need to either buy highest quality (ability or talent wise) that suits us, or not buy at all.
So, I'm okay with us going into season with the current, fairly poor set of defenders if it means that we'll get a couple of defensive 'starkids' in 1-2 seasons.

The only thing that worries me is that Pep often invests himself in his players too much, waits for too long when it's obvious that the the team is better off without the player. There are a number of examples - Hleb, Caceres, Chygrinsky, Ibra, Gotze, now Bravo. What I'd like to see is a bit more ruthlessness from Pep. Stones continues with blunders? Bench him, enough with the nannying. Otamendi slides on his ass after coach said he doesn't like it? Bench him too! Let Kolarov play! Joking ofc, but the majority is too kind to this pair anyway.

As for the opinion of posters thinking Stones and Ota have enough quality to compete with the best - well, Idk how to explain it. Maybe it's some kind of 'siege mentality' that forces to defend your club's players in any case. Everyone has opportunity to rewatch both Monaco games, refresh his memory and think what exactly City lacked last season.
 
Andrew___K said:
Can't argue with any of these points, so I'll just add my 5 cents.

Taking into perspective the major transfers that are happening now, I think it's safe to say that CB position, as well as DM, will be strengthened sooner or later, the only questions are 'by whom' and 'when'. Guardiola isn't blind, he sees more than we do.

I guess the hesitation with new CBs is explained by a major change of transfer policy that is happening now but isn't fully acknowledged yet: we're not buying average squad players anymore, it's curtains for delphs, fernandos, negredos and dinhos (with all my respect to Fernandinho). It's either high class or nothing, it's the only way to get to the top when Madrid is buying Theo and Mbappe to be Marcelo's and Ronaldo's understudies. The 'concentration of capital' in football is becoming ridiculous, and until UEFA makes some sensible changes, we need to follow the same route, unfortunately.

Nev Knev suggests a Demichelis type of signing, which I strongly disagree. We're restricted with the number of foreign sport so heavily that any additional average player will become an immovable dross as soon as next summer. We need to either buy highest quality (ability or talent wise) that suits us, or not buy at all.
So, I'm okay with us going into season with the current, fairly poor set of defenders if it means that we'll get a couple of defensive 'starkids' in 1-2 seasons.

The only thing that worries me is that Pep often invests himself in his players too much, waits for too long when it's obvious that the the team is better off without the player. There are a number of examples - Hleb, Caceres, Chygrinsky, Ibra, Gotze, now Bravo. What I'd like to see is a bit more ruthlessness from Pep. Stones continues with blunders? Bench him, enough with the nannying. Otamendi slides on his ass after coach said he doesn't like it? Bench him too! Let Kolarov play! Joking ofc, but the majority is too kind to this pair anyway.

As for the opinion of posters thinking Stones and Ota have enough quality to compete with the best - well, Idk how to explain it. Maybe it's some kind of 'siege mentality' that forces to defend your club's players in any case. Everyone has opportunity to rewatch both Monaco games, refresh his memory and think what exactly City lacked last season.
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Good and interesting post. Personally I probably would rather go with a Demichelis type signing if the alternative is not signing a centre back but I can see why you would rather not. If we don't sign a cb this summer then I feel certain it'll come back to haunt us and I'd hate Pep only be with us for three years and essentially spend most of it in some kind of transitional limbo. The squad would have a better balance if we got a cb now and left the next attacking signing till next summer rather than the other way round and for me the priority should be providing him with the most balanced squad we can as quickly as possible. I fear we are falling into the same trap wenger has done for a good few years. Looking like a couple of big defensive minded signings would take them to the next level but he could never resist blowing their budget on another attacking mid and compromising everything with defensive signings on the cheap or trying to get by with second rate chumps like Coquelin.
 
Andrew_K said:
What I'd like to see is a bit more ruthlessness from Pep. Stones continues with blunders? Bench him, enough with the nannying. Otamendi slides on his ass after coach said he doesn't like it? Bench him too! Let Kolarov play! Joking ofc, but the majority is too kind to this pair anyway.
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Gotta have the personnel to be able to do that and still compete for titles, which is exactly what I think Pep is trying to achieve with an "English-sized" squad. I think he realizes that his practice of 16 "real" players doesn't work in England, both because of the schedule, but also because of the ridiculously competitive nature of the league...which doesn't exist in nearly the same way in Spain or Germany.

Additionally, I think there are more than a few players (Hart, Nasri and Yaya for starters) who might have thought they were the "big I am" until Pep cured them of the notion, so I think he will be able to be more ruthless this coming season. For Stones, that means perform or sit.

Wrt Stones, I think the biggest thing has been what he is being asked to do is not entirely natural to him and he is still young. However, with even a slight change in attitude next season, the back three/four/five can be significantly better. More precisely, the decision making on when it is, and more importantly is not, reasonable to play out of the back, rather than distribute the ball down the channels to the wingers and inside midfielders.

This season isn't shaping up to be one of the most exciting ever for all the clubs, as the money sloshing around is giving all the clubs the ability to import the best talent available. I just hope we don't mistake City for Barcelona too soon, and still carry some bite and fight through the middle of the park. Have yet to see a player like that being recruited and we need at least one in there for certain games.
 
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