John Stones

[Sir peace frog]

Has there ever been successful CB partnerships where both the players are <22?

Smalling and Jones obviously

 

[bluesince76]

Maybe I have less than half a brain but even at the start I was wondering about the hype. I was hoping he'd settle but instead he collapsed. Seems a nice guy and we have a huge amount invested in him so I hope we are happy with him in the end ... but I'm not confident to be honest.

Did you see his comment last week about England and it being great to play for a coach who complained if he didn't attack? Not sure it was intentional, but it seemed a bit of a dig at Pellegrini

 

[Shaelumstash]

Not read the whole thread, but has anyone suggested him playing the pivote role in midfield? A deep lying playmaker?

He's not a natural centre back for me as he switches off and forgets to track runners, doesn't fill in space like a top centre back does.

He's absolutely superb on the ball though. Terrific technique, great eye for a pass, confident on the ball, not hesitant to play a sharp ball in to midfield. Sounds a lot like Busquets to me, only Stones is more athletic, much faster, and is young enough to learn and develop.

I'm not sure if he's ever played there before, but I just googled "Stones midfield" and it turns out Hodgson has considered using him there and Stones said he could play there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-reveals-he-may-play-john-stones-in-midfield/

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Not read the whole thread, but has anyone suggested him playing the pivote role in midfield? A deep lying playmaker?

He's not a natural centre back for me as he switches off and forgets to track runners, doesn't fill in space like a top centre back does.

He's absolutely superb on the ball though. Terrific technique, great eye for a pass, confident on the ball, not hesitant to play a sharp ball in to midfield. Sounds a lot like Busquets to me, only Stones is more athletic, much faster, and is young enough to learn and develop.

I'm not sure if he's ever played there before, but I just googled "Stones midfield" and it turns out Hodgson has considered using him there and Stones said he could play there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-reveals-he-may-play-john-stones-in-midfield/

I get the feeling he is a very similar player to Laporte....and both would look comfortable as defensive mid or CB position and I think that is why Pep is so interested in them both...you might be able to find better defenders and better CM players but its rare to find players that are natural at both positions and can give a team the seamless link up play between the back 4 and the midfield.....I have no problem going all in for both players as these two together over the next 5 years would make the whole team better......

 

[Sir peace frog]

I get the feeling he is a very similar player to Laporte....and both would look comfortable as defensive mid or CB position and I think that is why Pep is so interested in them both...you might be able to find better defenders and better CM players but its rare to find players that are natural at both positions and can give a team the seamless link up play between the back 4 and the midfield.....I have no problem going all in for both players as these two together over the next 5 years would make the whole team better......

I like a ball playing CB but I always think you need a rough fucker by their side not seen much of laporte is he rugged and silky as well

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

I like a ball playing CB but I always think you need a rough fucker by their side not seen much of laporte is he rugged and silky as well

Laporte had 2 reds and 8 yellow cards this season.....so likes to get stuck in!;) and from the little I've seen, he looks comfortable beating a man and carrying it out of defense.....still young and like Stones still learning but feel they both would be the right signings and perfect fit for Pep's system......

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Could the fact that Everton dont currently have a manager mean any talks with Everton over a Stones deal, might be held up until a new manager arrives and confirms if he's for sale or not?

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

Smalling and Jones obviously

Think he was on about age, not IQ's ;-)

 

[stony]

Could the fact that Everton dont currently have a manager mean any talks with Everton over a Stones deal, might be held up until a new manager arrives and confirms if he's for sale or not?

Kenwright has the last say. Moyes was dead against selling Lescott, but Uncle Bill saw the pound signs and did the deal.

 

[Dax777]

Has there ever been successful CB partnerships where both the players are <22?

Dortmund 5 years ago. Subotic and Hummels both 22.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Not read the whole thread, but has anyone suggested him playing the pivote role in midfield? A deep lying playmaker?

He's not a natural centre back for me as he switches off and forgets to track runners, doesn't fill in space like a top centre back does.

He's absolutely superb on the ball though. Terrific technique, great eye for a pass, confident on the ball, not hesitant to play a sharp ball in to midfield. Sounds a lot like Busquets to me, only Stones is more athletic, much faster, and is young enough to learn and develop.

I'm not sure if he's ever played there before, but I just googled "Stones midfield" and it turns out Hodgson has considered using him there and Stones said he could play there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-reveals-he-may-play-john-stones-in-midfield/

Fuck no. I don't rate him at centre half, he has a lot of improvement needed to become a top player there, like you recognise. His one strength is that he has strong ability on the ball for a centre half, but that's all it is, by a centre half's standards.

By a centre mid's standards? Average.

No way would, or should, we spend circa £45m on a centre half to play him out of position in centre mid. Especially when he wouldn't be best suited there, and there would be much better alternatives out there for that position for a fraction of the price.

The more I look at this transfer the more I hope it doesn't go through, just doesn't make sense. His passport will be the clincher though, no doubt. As per.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Fuck no. I don't rate him at centre half, he has a lot of improvement needed to become a top player there, like you recognise. His one strength is that he has strong ability on the ball for a centre half, but that's all it is, by a centre half's standards.

By a centre mid's standards? Average.

No way would, or should, we spend circa £45m on a centre half to play him out of position in centre mid. Especially when he wouldn't be best suited there, and there would be much better alternatives out there for that position for a fraction of the price.

The more I look at this transfer the more I hope it doesn't go through, just doesn't make sense. His passport will be the clincher though, no doubt. As per.

When he doesn't have the ball I'm not convinced by him at all at centre back. He doesn't have that innate ability to sense danger in the same way as someone like Kompany does.

I think he's superb on the ball though. I think he would be well above average in a deep-lying role. Compare him with Fenando for example. A player who always takes the safe, sideways or backwards option. Stones is the opposite, he's got great vision and a real confidence to play the ball forwards to feet when under pressure.

That gives him a hell of a chance to make it as a deep-lying midfielder. Look at Erik Dier at Spurs. Went there as a centre half and he's now one of the best holding players in the league. Stones is far more talented on the ball than Dier for me.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

When he doesn't have the ball I'm not convinced by him at all at centre back. He doesn't have that innate ability to sense danger in the same way as someone like Kompany does.

I think he's superb on the ball though. I think he would be well above average in a deep-lying role. Compare him with Fenando for example. A player who always takes the safe, sideways or backwards option. Stones is the opposite, he's got great vision and a real confidence to play the ball forwards to feet when under pressure.

That gives him a hell of a chance to make it as a deep-lying midfielder. Look at Erik Dier at Spurs. Went there as a centre half and he's now one of the best holding players in the league. Stones is far more talented on the ball than Dier for me.

Fernando is utter wank on the ball though mate, we should be getting rid. It's not exactly a fair comparison. Fernando won't be anywhere near starting for us under Pep, in fact he'll probably be long gone by mid August.

Remember the player that'll be in that deep lying role will be doing so in a Pep side, and for that reason I can't at all, hypothetically or not, see us playing Stones there and it making any sense whatsoever.

Remember, this is the manager that plays midfielders at centre half for their ball playing ability, he wants even more out of his midfielders, especially one acting as a pivot.

And honestly, I don't agree about Dier, I think they're very similar in their strength on the ball, and Dier's a much better defender. But it's apples and oranges given what would be asked of Stones in a Pep side as opposed to Dier at Spurs.

I think we're really barking up the wrong tree if we're going to pursue Stones for a midfield role, doesn't make sense at all for me. But I don't think we are, thankfully.

Then again, I don't think it makes sense at centre half either. Sooner we just brought Laporte in and trusted Denayer.

Honestly, I'd rather we just didn't sign him. Even if it meant him going to the rags. They can gamble a fortune on him in the hope that he might make a decent centre half for all I care, I don't think we should. I think we're in a position where we don't need to with Denayer.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Fernando is utter wank on the ball though mate, we should be getting rid. It's not exactly a fair comparison. Fernando won't be anywhere near starting for us under Pep, in fact he'll probably be long gone by mid August.

Remember the player that'll be in that deep lying role will be doing so in a Pep side, and for that reason I can't at all, hypothetically or not, see us playing Stones there and it making any sense whatsoever.

Remember, this is the manager that plays midfielders at centre half for their ball playing ability, he wants even more out of his midfielders, especially one acting as a pivot.

And honestly, I don't agree about Dier, I think they're very similar in their strength on the ball, and Dier's a much better defender. But it's apples and oranges given what would be asked of Stones in a Pep side as opposed to Dier at Spurs.

I think we're really barking up the wrong tree if we're going to pursue Stones for a midfield role, doesn't make sense at all for me.

Then again, I don't think it makes sense at centre half either. Sooner we just brought Laporte in and trusted Denayer.

Honestly, I'd rather we just didn't sign him. Even if it meant him going to the rags. They can gamble a fortune on him in the hope that he might make a decent centre half for all I care, I don't think we should. I think we're in a position where we don't need to with Denayer.

Strange that you don't think Stones is ready for the top level but you think Denayer is, what are you basing that on?

I've seen Denayer in a couple of pre-season games for us and he looked absolutely miles off. I've heard from people who've worked with him every day in training say he's nowhere near ready for the PL.

I'm not saying he's not good enough, I've not seen enough of him to make an informed judgement. But I'm really confused as to what is making people say he's definitely ready for the Prem? Unless they've been watching Turkish league games on a stream or something?

Of course Pivot is a key position in a Pep team. Kroos would be my first choice for it, he's an absolute master at passing a football. I don't think there's an awful lot of options for that role.

Wiegl looks a real talent but I don't think he's gettable this summer. Busquets isn't going anywhere. Thiago doesn't look all he's cracked up to be. Alonso and Pirlo are too old. Kroos looks the most likely option.

I'm not saying Stones is already at that level. I'm just saying he's got the tools to play that role. With the best best coach in the world, someone who played that position his whole career and was the best in the world at it, maybe he could be moulded in to it?

Neither of us have seen him play there so we're both speculating. But personally I think Stones has more natural attributes to play as a pivot than as a centre half.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Strange that you don't think Stones is ready for the top level but you think Denayer is, what are you basing that on?

I've seen Denayer in a couple of pre-season games for us and he looked absolutely miles off. I've heard from people who've worked with him every day in training say he's nowhere near ready for the PL.

I'm not saying he's not good enough, I've not seen enough of him to make an informed judgement. But I'm really confused as to what is making people say he's definitely ready for the Prem? Unless they've been watching Turkish league games on a stream or something?

Of course Pivot is a key position in a Pep team. Kroos would be my first choice for it, he's an absolute master at passing a football. I don't think there's an awful lot of options for that role.

Wiegl looks a real talent but I don't think he's gettable this summer. Busquets isn't going anywhere. Thiago doesn't look all he's cracked up to be. Alonso and Pirlo are too old. Kroos looks the most likely option.

I'm not saying Stones is already at that level. I'm just saying he's got the tools to play that role. With the best best coach in the world, someone who played that position his whole career and was the best in the world at it, maybe he could be moulded in to it?

Neither of us have seen him play there so we're both speculating. But personally I think Stones has more natural attributes to play as a pivot than as a centre half.

Denayer hasn't been granted a chance to prove himself in the PL. We needn't be having the conversation really if we'd fucked off Demichelis last summer and given Denayer a year in the squad, then we'd have a much better idea of where he is at as a player.

Instead we're using a certain amount of guesswork and having to punt this season.

I just think he's worth the punt, and for all the hype around Stones, he's been poor in the PL and isn't someone who's majorly proven himself up to the grade.

Re Stones having more attributes to play as a pivot than a centre half, that's arguably true. But he'd be an utterly shit pivot at £45m.

I don't agree that he could be truly moulded into it, to truly excel there you need great natural ability and intelligence, not unusual ability by a centre half's standards.

I just don't buy into it mate. I don't think we should move for him full stop, personally.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Denayer hasn't been granted a chance to prove himself in the PL. We needn't be having the conversation really if we'd fucked off Demichelis last summer and given Denayer a year in the squad, then we'd have a much better idea of where he is at as a player.

Instead we're using a certain amount of guesswork and having to punt this season.

I just think he's worth the punt, and for all the hype around Stones, he's been poor in the PL and isn't someone who's majorly proven himself up to the grade.

Re Stones having more attributes to play as a pivot than a centre half, that's arguably true. But he'd be an utterly shit pivot at £45m.

I don't agree that he could be truly moulded into it, to truly excel there you need great natural ability and intelligence, not unusual ability by a centre half's standards.

I just don't buy into it mate. I don't think we should move for him full stop, personally.

So do you think Denayer is worth a punt based on what you've seen of him as a footballer, or based on wanting to give him a go because he's come through the academy?

I've not seen anything of Denayer that makes me think he's a PL player. I've not seen an awful lot of him, mind, so I'm not in the best position to judge.

I've seen a fair bit of Stones though, and from what I've seen of him I think there's a top player in there somewhere. Whether that's at centre half or pivot, he's got the raw materials to become a top player.

That's why Stones is being tracked by City, Barca, The Shite and Chelsea and being valued at £50m. Whereas Denayer is being tracked by Galatasaray and Celtic and is valued at 50 bob, he's completely unproven and untested at the top level so far.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

So do you think Denayer is worth a punt based on what you've seen of him as a footballer, or based on wanting to give him a go because he's come through the academy?

I've not seen anything of Denayer that makes me think he's a PL player. I've not seen an awful lot of him, mind, so I'm not in the best position to judge.

I've seen a fair bit of Stones though, and from what I've seen of him I think there's a top player in there somewhere. Whether that's at centre half or pivot, he's got the raw materials to become a top player.

That's why Stones is being tracked by City, Barca, The Shite and Chelsea and being valued at £50m. Whereas Denayer is being tracked by Galatasaray and Celtic and is valued at 50 bob, he's completely unproven and untested at the top level so far.

A bit of both. I think he has the ability, he's more of a natural defender than Stones and he's just as good with the ball.

The only real question mark over him, for me, is that he's a bit physically slight, and not that tall.

From what I've seen of him though I think he's worth giving a real opportunity to.

I don't know with Stones, he could go on to be top draw or he could never make the real strides needed to get there and continue to be the bang average centre half who can play the ball around well that he is at present.

I suppose the question for the club is whether or not he's worth the punt at the numbers mooted.

 

[mikemcfcwilde]

A bit of both. I think he has the ability, he's more of a natural defender than Stones and he's just as good with the ball.

The only real question mark over him, for me, is that he's a bit physically slight, and not that tall.

From what I've seen of him though I think he's worth giving a real opportunity to.

I don't know with Stones, he could go on to be top draw or he could never make the real strides needed to get there and continue to be the bang average centre half who can play the ball around well that he is at present.

I suppose the question for the club is whether or not he's worth the punt at the numbers mooted.

He is already better than bang average, Stones seems to get a rough ride on here.

Maybe if his name was Stonezinho.

 

[Wolfkin]

So do you think we will get both, Laporte and Stones?

 

[Keeper!]

So do you think Denayer is worth a punt based on what you've seen of him as a footballer, or based on wanting to give him a go because he's come through the academy?

I've not seen anything of Denayer that makes me think he's a PL player. I've not seen an awful lot of him, mind, so I'm not in the best position to judge.

I've seen a fair bit of Stones though, and from what I've seen of him I think there's a top player in there somewhere. Whether that's at centre half or pivot, he's got the raw materials to become a top player.

That's why Stones is being tracked by City, Barca, The Shite and Chelsea and being valued at £50m. Whereas Denayer is being tracked by Galatasaray and Celtic and is valued at 50 bob, he's completely unproven and untested at the top level so far.

If Denyer was the real deal, he would not have been allowed to go back out on loan last season, especially as MD was coming to the end of his career.

If we get both Stones and Laporte, I would think its more than possible he , Denyer will go back to Turkey for another season.