Juanma Lillo | Leaving the club before the CWC (p52)

citizen_maine said:
You don't think performances on the pitch are more likely to be related to things that have changed (injuries etc), than things that haven't (coaches etc)?
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Lillo returned in August 2023, just after the treble win. This team peaked in Istanbul - our football going stale has actually coincided with Lillo's return, along with some of Pep's decision-making & tactics becoming more erratic & stubborn. (The insistence on inverted fullbacks when it's clearly backfiring, and slow/lack of substitutions are two that spring to mind.)

My concern is Lillo isn't providing the necessary challenge and alternative solutions to Pep's ideas, as Arteta, Maresca and others were cited as doing, to great success, in their seasons here. And that's before you consider the fact he can't speak directly with most of the squad.

This isn't Fifa, the fluctuations of a football team's performance will have many factors, the coaching staff and therefore the assistant manager has to be a factor in that.
 
kunaguero10 said:
Lillo returned in August 2023, just after the treble win. This team peaked in Istanbul - our football going stale has actually coincided with Lillo's return, along with some of Pep's decision-making & tactics becoming more erratic & stubborn. (The insistence on inverted fullbacks when it's clearly backfiring, and slow/lack of substitutions are two that spring to mind.)

My concern is Lillo isn't providing the necessary challenge and alternative solutions to Pep's ideas, as Arteta, Maresca and others were cited as doing, to great success, in their seasons here. And that's before you consider the fact he can't speak directly with most of the squad.

This isn't Fifa, the fluctuations of a football team's performance will have many factors, the coaching staff and therefore the assistant manager has to be a factor in that.
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It's also a coincidence that he joined City in June 2020 and we haven't lost the league since :-)
You said it yourself though - the team peaked in Istanbul, so there's been a natural drop off since. That I'd suggest, coupled with an unprecedented number of injuries, is more likely to account for our current turmoil than his inability to speak English
 
citizen_maine said:
It's also a coincidence that he joined City in June 2020 and we haven't lost the league since :-)
You said it yourself though - the team peaked in Istanbul, so there's been a natural drop off since. That I'd suggest, coupled with an unprecedented number of injuries, is more likely to account for our current turmoil than his inability to speak English
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Que?
 
Mancityphilfo2000 said:
We are at that stage we are blaming everyone were sounding more like the red cnuts across the road by the day.
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Fuck me is it so radical to suggest a link between the primary assistant manager and the performance of the team he is assisting in the management of?

(Especially who just so happens to not be able to communicate directly with many/most of the players?)
 
I've seen people trying to push this agenda elsewhere. For me, he was someone we brought back because he keeps Pep stable and we wanted Pep to stay as long as possible.

I think if we are going to look at the coaching staff, the bigger question mark would be on the amount of assistant coaches that have left and whether they've been properly replaced. Who are his assistant coaches at the moment?

If it's just Lilo, then the empty seats(steady) next to Lilo are the problem, if there is one there, IMO.
 
citizen_maine said:
It's also a coincidence that he joined City in June 2020 and we haven't lost the league since :-)
You said it yourself though - the team peaked in Istanbul, so there's been a natural drop off since. That I'd suggest, coupled with an unprecedented number of injuries, is more likely to account for our current turmoil than his inability to speak English
Click to expand...
Yes it’s likely injuries are more significant - but that doesn’t mean other factors, for instance the assistant manager, aren’t areas that can’t be improved upon

And if you can’t see that his inability to speak directly to most of the players may be a limitation then we’ll have to agree to disagree
 
kunaguero10 said:
Lillo returned in August 2023, just after the treble win. This team peaked in Istanbul - our football going stale has actually coincided with Lillo's return, along with some of Pep's decision-making & tactics becoming more erratic & stubborn. (The insistence on inverted fullbacks when it's clearly backfiring, and slow/lack of substitutions are two that spring to mind.)

My concern is Lillo isn't providing the necessary challenge and alternative solutions to Pep's ideas, as Arteta, Maresca and others were cited as doing, to great success, in their seasons here. And that's before you consider the fact he can't speak directly with most of the squad.

This isn't Fifa, the fluctuations of a football team's performance will have many factors, the coaching staff and therefore the assistant manager has to be a factor in that.
Click to expand...
Agree.
Our players look shattered after 20 mins and the non stop injuries so you do need to look at our medical and fitness team. Our set pieces are awful, its like we do no homework or training on them ie Rags conceded 42% of their goals from corners so we played every one short (even the one we scored from was underhit and we got lucky) and us hitting the 1st defender time and time again.
Our finishing is up there with some of the worst in the PL, we struggle to create in the final third and cannot defend and seems Ederson simply does not to any work on penalties so i do wonder what they do in training all week apart from possession based stuff
 
Metalartin said:
I've seen people trying to push this agenda elsewhere. For me, he was someone we brought back because he keeps Pep stable and we wanted Pep to stay as long as possible.

I think if we are going to look at the coaching staff, the bigger question mark would be on the amount of assistant coaches that have left and whether they've been properly replaced. Who are his assistant coaches at the moment?

If it's just Lilo, then the empty seats(steady) next to Lilo are the problem, if there is one there, IMO.
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This is the crux of the problem for me - my fear is he does not challenge Pep's ideas enough and bring his own ideas to the table, the way Arteta & Maresca did. It's only a theory that he doesn't challenge Pep, but Pep definitely needs more than just a 'mate' and a yes man in the seat next to him.

Arteta & Maresca being aspiring managers themselves did the role of challenging Pep on his ideas & tactics (and would form their own personal coaching bonds with the players, much has been written about this - Lillo being unable to speak English is surely limited in this regard?)
 
kunaguero10 said:
Fuck me is it so radical to suggest a link between the primary assistant manager and the performance of the team he is assisting in the management of?

(Especially who just so happens to not be able to communicate directly with many/most of the players?)
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Its fairly radical alright and getting a little tedious.

I don't believe Lillo had any influence on Walker involved in headbuttgate, Gvardiol unable to make simple clearances, Nunes giving away a ridiculous penalty, Ake pulling a hamstring by just by getting out of bed, Stones a regular on Holby City and Haaland kidnapped and replaced by a masculine Claudia Schiffer.
 
hertsblue said:
Agree.
Our players look shattered after 20 mins and the non stop injuries so you do need to look at our medical and fitness team. Our set pieces are awful, its like we do no homework or training on them ie Rags conceded 42% of their goals from corners so we played every one short (even the one we scored from was underhit and we got lucky) and us hitting the 1st defender time and time again.
Our finishing is up there with some of the worst in the PL, we struggle to create in the final third and cannot defend and seems Ederson simply does not to any work on penalties so i do wonder what they do in training all week apart from possession based stuff
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Probably why we’ve won fuck all in the last 8 years.
 
Xhavenjoe said:
Its fairly radical alright and getting a little tedious.

I don't believe Lillo had any influence on Walker involved in headbuttgate, Gvardiol unable to make simple clearances, Nunes giving away a ridiculous penalty, Ake pulling a hamstring by just by getting out of bed, Stones a regular on Holby City and Haaland kidnapped and replaced by a masculine Claudia Schiffer.
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Ok as I said, I'll agree to disagree, but if the performance & trajectory of the team over an extended period can't be attributed in any way to the assistant manager then we might as well get rid of the position altogether.
 
kunaguero10 said:
This is the crux of the problem for me - my fear is he does not challenge Pep's ideas enough and bring his own ideas to the table, the way Arteta & Maresca did. It's only a theory that he doesn't challenge Pep, but Pep definitely needs more than just a 'mate' and a yes man in the seat next to him.

Arteta & Maresca being aspiring managers themselves did the role of challenging Pep on his ideas & tactics (and would form their own personal coaching bonds with the players, much has been written about this - Lillo being unable to speak English is surely limited in this regard?)
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Did you read the rest of my argument though?

We still want Pep to not burn himself out emotionally. So it's not a case of Lillo out, would anyone else say he's kind of got the Brian Kidd role or is that off the mark? He was never meant to be relied on so heavily is the point, much like Gundo and Kova coincidentally.

Bringing in some assistant coaches, I'm not against that at all, I think there might be something to that. If the coaching assistant pool has been allowed to dwindle down to just Lillo(it was never just Arteta or just Masesca supporting Pep), it feels like that was a deliberate move ie Pep was expecting this to be his last season. We should have addressed it as soon as he gave his decision to extend. Maybe they did get on it straight away but have struggled to find anyone suitable, who's willing to make the switch before Jan?
 
kunaguero10 said:
Yes it’s likely injuries are more significant - but that doesn’t mean other factors, for instance the assistant manager, aren’t areas that can’t be improved upon

And if you can’t see that his inability to speak directly to most of the players may be a limitation then we’ll have to agree to disagree
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You're right that there may be areas that can be improved on, but you don't know if he is one of them.
He may be the best possible assistant that Pep could have.
He may not be
We don't know
We may consider the limitations of his inability to speak English is worth it for what he brings to the table
We don't know
 
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