Kalvin Phillips

[Durutti City]

Seems like a good guy. But he looks like a player who doesn't really want the ball. And seems surprised when he is (crucially a few seconds too late) eventually given it. Not the end of the world. And he must be an AMAZING footballer. Remember, to get anywhere near our team he must be so good. But I can't see it happening for him at City. Hope I'm wrong. Time will tell (I think it is obvious that it already has). Meanwhile, he could at least drop the jewing gum.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Alan I don't talk shit about our players but I think we have to come to terms with.. he suits a park the bus system and not a possession based one trying to break down a low block and avoid counters.

Good player.. wrong team.

Sorta a bit like Coutinho at Brokelona. At least we didn't pay 150 mil for him though!

Agreed. He needs to go.

We don’t need to make up extra reasons though!

 

[Mcfc1.9.8.0]

lol, ok.

I remember Gundogan being criticised for not getting stuck in when the chips were down too.

It‘s the innate English supporter’s need for players to show desire and that they care.

If Phillips had cared enough, he could have seen the shot go in from closer quarters.

If I’m honest I like him as a person seems sound and dead honest and I think he’s got a bit of a raw deal at the club. I was happy we signed him seemed a good player but it got off to a bad start with his injuries then Pep having a pop about his weight. That should have been done in private and not played out in the media especially with his previous poor season due to injuries.

But for me the main thing where he’s been hard done by is Rodri is so important to us as the last couple of games showed and every man and his dog knows he needs a rest. But when we are winning comfortably Rodri plays the 90min (Burnley prime example 3-0 up away in Greece a few days later then a tough game v Newcastle) add to that arsenal in the CS. or Phillips gets 5/6min dead rubber games Rodri play’s carabao cup Rodri plays. That can’t be good for his confidence I think there’s a good player in the lad but not at city. Whether Pep never wanted him doesn’t like him. But to me there seems more to it than just being not good enough.

Did he not move on in the summer because he thought he could get into the team of was it a 2 fingers to the club and saying you gave me a contract I ain’t moving. And is that why Pep ain’t giving him a look in trying to teach him a lesson or force him out.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

If I’m honest I like him as a person seems sound and dead honest and I think he’s got a bit of a raw deal at the club. I was happy we signed him seemed a good player but it got off to a bad start with his injuries then Pep having a pop about his weight. That should have been done in private and not played out in the media especially with his previous poor season due to injuries.

But for me the main thing where he’s been hard done by is Rodri is so important to us as the last couple of games showed and every man and his dog knows he needs a rest. But when we are winning comfortably Rodri plays the 90min (Burnley prime example 3-0 up away in Greece a few days later then a tough game v Newcastle) add to that arsenal in the CS. or Phillips gets 5/6min dead rubber games Rodri play’s carabao cup Rodri plays. That can’t be good for his confidence I think there’s a good player in the lad but not at city. Whether Pep never wanted him doesn’t like him. But to me there seems more to it than just being not good enough.

Did he not move on in the summer because he thought he could get into the team of was it a 2 fingers to the club and saying you gave me a contract I ain’t moving. And is that why Pep ain’t giving him a look in trying to teach him a lesson or force him out.

My two penny‘s worth is that he’s a huge family guy. He’s really close to his mum and sisters. He’s got a move 40 miles down the road, being paid more than he will ever get again and is picking up loads of trophies.

I reckon his competitive fire has gone out somewhat as he probably thinks he can’t do any better for himself, barring maybe being a starter for England at the Euros.

I don’t think he isn’t trying at City. He probably just knows whatever he does, he’s not dislodging Rodri.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

My two penny‘s worth is that he’s a huge family guy. He’s really close to his mum and sisters. He’s got a move 40 miles down the road, being paid more than he will ever get again and is picking up loads of trophies.

I reckon his competitive fire has gone out somewhat as he probably thinks he can’t do any better for himself, barring maybe being a starter for England at the Euros.

I don’t think he isn’t trying at City. He probably just knows whatever he does, he’s not dislodging Rodri.

I think there is a lot of truth in all you said, and I would add one other thing…if a player never plays MATCHES, he never gets “match fit!”

Grealish has looked poor over the last few games, but is given the excuse that he is building his match fitness after an injury. Meanwhile, Phillips KNOWS that if Rodri is fit, he’s getting every repetition in training and going to play 85 mins even when we are up by 3!

That’s another of Pep’s problems…he likes a very small (16) PLAYING SQUAD, and is more than happy to play players “out of position” rather than let a “squad player” get a run out in that position.

 

[Keeper!]

My two penny‘s worth is that he’s a huge family guy. He’s really close to his mum and sisters. He’s got a move 40 miles down the road, being paid more than he will ever get again and is picking up loads of trophies.

I reckon his competitive fire has gone out somewhat as he probably thinks he can’t do any better for himself, barring maybe being a starter for England at the Euros.

I don’t think he isn’t trying at City. He probably just knows whatever he does, he’s not dislodging Rodri.

"competitive fire "

This is so true, it must be heartbreaking knowing your simply not going to be playing but does the emotion of wanting to prove people wrong and moving to another club not kick in?

If he does decide to move on, he will still have some very big clubs coming in for him, already talk of Arsenal in January, although I don't think he would move to London.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think there is a lot of truth in all you said, and I would add one other thing…if a player never plays MATCHES, he never gets “match fit!”

Grealish has looked poor over the last few games, but is given the excuse that he is building his match fitness after an injury. Meanwhile, Phillips KNOWS that if Rodri is fit, he’s getting every repetition in training and going to play 85 mins even when we are up by 3!

That’s another of Pep’s problems…he likes a very small (16) PLAYING SQUAD, and is more than happy to play players “out of position” rather than let a “squad player” get a run out in that position.

True. Grealish has shown he has a role in the team and that we can win with him playing. He has that money in the bank.

We've never seen that with Kalvin. I don’t think many of us want him to fail, just that we haven’t seen anything from him in 15 months to suggest he helps our team.

 

[CrowbarHEAD]

I would venture he can do (and has done) all 4 of those things when he played at Leeds because Leeds played “off the leash.” Pep not only plays “on the leash,” but muzzled for the most part.

He CAN play, but the Pep system is almost robotic in its approach to the game and he is not a Pep robot…he was a Bielsa robot, who could go anywhere and do anything, as long as he took full responsibility for his man.

Like Grealish for most of his time here, and increasingly with Foden, it seems like flair is discouraged unless it is world class flair that actually produces a result. Messi had it, David Silva had it, Bernardo shows flashes of it. Alas, Grealish and Foden are passing robots! They pretend they might take you on, then pass it back to an open man. DON’T LOSE POSSESSION is more important than “penetrate by taking your man on one on one!”

Doku looks like he’s in a “damned if I do, damned if I don’t” position because when it’s paid off, it’s looked exciting, but when it doesn’t, it looks Sterling-esque!

I hate to say it, but I think a few half decent coaches have us completely sussed and it is only the QUALITY OF THE PLAYERS that makes us come out on top. Pep acknowledged that the quality of the players in his system is key, because it’s generally high risk defence complemented by a smothering attack that is designed to not let you at the Spartan defence.

In short, Pep needs to figure out how to use Haaland in games like this OR play a false nine and leave the opposition marking thin air.

Leeds fan here...in some ways I actually think it's the other way round with Kalvin's time at our club. Bielsa's football was also very robotic and Kalvin had a quite specific remit in it, it's just a remit that was quite different to Rodri's even though the players operate(d) in very similar parts of the pitch.

Our play/attacks were constructed out wide, so much so that some of us would call our on-ball strategy 'vacating the middle'. The #8s ahead of Kalvin would go wide and form combinations with the fullback and winger. There literally wouldn't be midfielders ahead of Kalvin for him to turn and pass through the lines too. Apart from the longrange diags (which he is notably good at even though it is an easier skill in football to pass long when unmarked), Kalvin would be playing a quite simple (& retention-focused) passing game. Get ball from fullback, pass back to CB. Get ball from keeper, send it wide to the fullback. These kind of things. He didn't have to play through pressure centrally because the system took away the requirement to do so.

Between Bielsa's demands, him playing in stodgy sides under previous Leeds managers, and only coming to us at the late age of 14 from his boys' club, mastery of all kinds of passing is such an underdeveloped part of his game, despite nominally playing in a pivot role in a 'possession' team under Bielsa.

To me his strengths were always a) that long passing and b) his defensive game, where I thought he was outstanding, if a bit prone to ball-watching. Man-marking kinda mitigated this by making him focus on a man and not the ball/zonal structure, but even so I always rated his defensive intensity mega highly. But those skills, combined with a 'safety-only' approach with the ball at his feet make him, to my mind, much more suited for a team that sits a bit deeper and plays on the counter. The opposite to what y'all do. Makes sense why he's been a hit for Southgate.

But such a shame to see him lose the fire for the defensive side. I was sure he was going to offer you something in this aspect of play even if he would be limited on the ball. That clip of the Newcastle goal makes me very sad. What happened to our Kalv?

 

[Paul1970]

My two penny‘s worth is that he’s a huge family guy. He’s really close to his mum and sisters. He’s got a move 40 miles down the road, being paid more than he will ever get again and is picking up loads of trophies.

I reckon his competitive fire has gone out somewhat as he probably thinks he can’t do any better for himself, barring maybe being a starter for England at the Euros.

I don’t think he isn’t trying at City. He probably just knows whatever he does, he’s not dislodging Rodri.

Spot on mate

 

[Paul1970]

Leeds fan here...in some ways I actually think it's the other way round with Kalvin's time at our club. Bielsa's football was also very robotic and Kalvin had a quite specific remit in it, it's just a remit that was quite different to Rodri's even though the players operate(d) in very similar parts of the pitch.

Our play/attacks were constructed out wide, so much so that some of us would call our on-ball strategy 'vacating the middle'. The #8s ahead of Kalvin would go wide and form combinations with the fullback and winger. There literally wouldn't be midfielders ahead of Kalvin for him to turn and pass through the lines too. Apart from the longrange diags (which he is notably good at even though it is an easier skill in football to pass long when unmarked), Kalvin would be playing a quite simple (& retention-focused) passing game. Get ball from fullback, pass back to CB. Get ball from keeper, send it wide to the fullback. These kind of things. He didn't have to play through pressure centrally because the system took away the requirement to do so.

Between Bielsa's demands, him playing in stodgy sides under previous Leeds managers, and only coming to us at the late age of 14 from his boys' club, mastery of all kinds of passing is such an underdeveloped part of his game, despite nominally playing in a pivot role in a 'possession' team under Bielsa.

To me his strengths were always a) that long passing and b) his defensive game, where I thought he was outstanding, if a bit prone to ball-watching. Man-marking kinda mitigated this by making him focus on a man and not the ball/zonal structure, but even so I always rated his defensive intensity mega highly. But those skills, combined with a 'safety-only' approach with the ball at his feet make him, to my mind, much more suited for a team that sits a bit deeper and plays on the counter. The opposite to what y'all do. Makes sense why he's been a hit for Southgate.

But such a shame to see him lose the fire for the defensive side. I was sure he was going to offer you something in this aspect of play even if he would be limited on the ball. That clip of the Newcastle goal makes me very sad. What happened to our Kalv?

Problem was and with massive respect to Leeds city is another level to both Leeds and even England tbh and he is just not good enough . Cracking lad and j really wanted him to do well but I can’t see him making it here .