Ken Livingston

So, if I am reading your post correctly "The Jewish religion is however completely wedded to the idea of Israel as its spiritual home" and "Zionism was fairly simple to define, as it was the desire or support for a Jewish state in what was then Mandatory Palestine" and " and by saying you're "anti-Zionist" then by definition you're expressing a desire to see the destruction of Israel.

So to be anti-Zionist is to be anti-Semitic?
I didn't say that. But a large number of people who declare themselves "anti-Zionist" are indeed anti-Semitic whereas others genuinely take issue with many of the actions of the Israel government. But it's difficult to know and it's quite clear anti-Semites hide behind "anti-Zionism".
 
I didn't say that. But a large number of people who declare themselves "anti-Zionist" are indeed anti-Semitic whereas others genuinely take issue with many of the actions of the Israel government. But it's difficult to know and it's quite clear anti-Semites hide behind "anti-Zionism".

While you didn't say that explicitly, it is not possible to read that string of sentences and come to any other conclusion.

My own opinion is probably not what you expect. Israel is not going away, it exists and will continue to exist. It has powerful allies and it's neighbours are weak, consumed with war, poverty, poor government and internal religious strife. Support for Palestine amongst Israel's Arab neighbours is lip service at best and the bogey man of evil Zionists that appears daily in the Arab press is no more than that.

The two state solution is for the birds, the idea that two states could co-exist in harmony is a pipedream, even from a practical point of view it is almost impossible to imagine how it would work. From a political point of view there is no popular consensus for it on the Israeli side and on the Palestinian side their support for it is based entirely on the concept that it is better than nothing, assuming some working formulae could be constructed, which it won't. Anyone who knows anything about the region knows it is simply never going to happen.

So what will happen? Not much really. Israel will continue as an armed fortress in the Middle East, her neighbours will continue not trading with her and, of course, they will continue to hate her, while their populations grow and they run out of arable land and drinking water. The oil rich Arab states will diversify or die as their oil runs out, there will be continued religious strife and civil wars and it will go on much as it has done for the last few decades.

Depressing really.
 
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While you didn't say that explicitly, it is not possible to read that string of sentences and come to any other conclusion.

My own opinion is probably not what you expect. Israel is not going away, it exists and will continue to exist. It has powerful allies and it's neighbours are weak, consumed with war, poverty, poor government and internal religious strife. Support for Palestine amongst Israel's Arab neighbours is lip service at best and the bogey man of evil Zionists that appears daily in the Arab press is no more than that.

The two State solution is for the birds, the idea that two states could co-exist in harmony is a pipedream, even from a practical point of view it is almost impossible to imagine how it would work. From a political point of view there is no popular consensus for it on the Israeli side and on the Palestinian side their support for it is based entirely on the concept that it is better than nothing, assuming some working formulae could be constructed, which it won't. Anyone who knows anything about the region knows it is simply never going to happen.

So what will happen? Not much really. Israel will continue as an armed fortress in the Middle East, her neighbours will continue not trading with her and, of course, they will continue to hate her, while their populations grow and they run out of arable land and drinking water. The oil rich Arab states will diversify or die as their oil runs out, there will be continued religious strife and civil wars and it will go on much as it has done for the last few decades.

Depressing really.
Hope you're wrong but I doubt it.
 
Hope you're wrong but I doubt it.

Blair bounced round the Middle East trading on his reputation for the Northern Ireland peace agreement, but that agreement was based on identifying areas of consensus and building a power structure in which both camps got something, underpinned by the British State. Whatever one thinks of Blair he has tried, as others have, to do this in the Middle East. If you connect people in joint endeavours in which both sides benefit, wait a generation for it to knit together, after a while problems which seemed insurmountable just fade away.

It is difficult in the age of Netanyahu, Hamas and Hezbollah, with the Syrian civil war raging on, with a destabilised Iraq and the aftermath of the Arab spring still reverberating, to imagine anything positive along the lines of the Northern Ireland peace agreement happening with the Israel/Palestine question. Besides the world is consumed now with ISIS, where is the clamour for a solution to the problems in Israel? Nowhere to be seen, at the bottom of an in tray somewhere in the capitals of Europe and the USA marked sometime/never.

Nevertheless, Netanyahu is a dick, but he's their dick and they're welcome to him.
 
I didn't say that. But a large number of people who declare themselves "anti-Zionist" are indeed anti-Semitic whereas others genuinely take issue with many of the actions of the Israel government. But it's difficult to know and it's quite clear anti-Semites hide behind "anti-Zionism".

Just to clear things up, this is anti-Semitic?....

 

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