Key Bridge, Baltimore, has collapsed.

Trevor Morley's Tache said:
1 to 6 hours expected survival time in 10 degree water. Age, fitness and underlying health conditions being the major factor.

If anyone is still in the water, it is likely they are dead.
Click to expand...
In the forces (Royal Navy) we aimed to have
A) Swimmer
Or
B) RIB (rigid inflatable)

In the water by 6 minutes with a man overboard scenario.
 
cleavers said:
Police have already ruled that out, in any case you'd hardly carry out a terrorist attack at 01:40 in the morning, on a nearly empty bridge.

bbc says +10 C, air temperature -1 C


If it had been -10 C it would be frozen.
Click to expand...
www.lloydslist.com

UPDATED: Maersk-operated containership hits Baltimore bridge, causing collapse

<p>Up to 20 people fell into the Patapsco River following the incident while all crew members, including two river pilots, on board the Dali have been accounted for</p>
www.lloydslist.com www.lloydslist.com
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I think the important word that was used was 'relatively'. It's not massive chunks of concrete.

However, I agree with what appears to be your point - if you hit any bridge with a 300m long cargo ship, it's likely to collapse.
Click to expand...
That is my point. But the experts here have apparently determined it's a shite American bridge and bemoaned the lack of spending on quality infrastructure.

That said, there's a point to that argument -- but they have no idea if it has anything to do with why this bridge collapsed.

We could as easily say that that South Korean shipbuilding looks absolute crap given it appears there were power/steering failures that caused the accident.
 
balotellishaircut said:
Because of the way the bridge collapsed, I wouldn’t expect a bridge to collapse in that way after a cargo ship hits one of the concrete pylons, like I said just my opinion, what’s your take on it ?
Click to expand...

Then your sense of scale is even more fucked than I previously noted :)
 
You could argue that the bridge appears flimsy when it collapses as it does, but it wasn't designed to withstand a direct hit to a supporting pylon by a massive ship. It was opened to traffic in 1977 and supposedly has 11 million vehicles passing over it annually. So in that respect, it is far from flimsy and has been operating as intended for many years.

If a HGV is travelling 60mph on a road and smashes into a 'flimsy' pedestrian bridge, its going to collapse.

I'm sure when rebuilt they will look into some more preventative measures to protect any supporting structures, but you can't engineer everything to withstand all possible disastrous scenarios.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
That is my point. But the experts here have apparently determined it's a shite American bridge and bemoaned the lack of spending on quality infrastructure.

That said, there's a point to that argument -- but they have no idea if it has anything to do with why this bridge collapsed.

We could as easily say that that South Korean shipbuilding looks absolute crap given it appears there were power/steering failures that caused the accident.
Click to expand...
Awfy precious over a few comments over a singular bridge are you no.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
So . . . every bridge support is "flimsy" then, apparently, when a big ship hits it.

I assume same if a bomb is dropped on it.
Click to expand...

Nailed it. The irony is people talking about 'modern' bridges, which have since found ways to, erm, become even more slender. This one had a whole type of truss named after it, and is a big fuck-off structure. That got hit by a massive fucking force with unimaginable momentum.

Been speaking to 6 different practicing structural engineers about it this morning as well btw, and they all agree, and that while the guy on bbc is 'right' in his pointing out what weaknesses there are in that type of structure, every other type has weaknesses and it is unlikely any would or would be expected to withstand a cargo ship crashing into its main support. Nor would any see its main portion stay up, because that's not how bridges work.

Apart from arguably the forth rail, which is effectively tiny bridges between 3 separate structures.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
That is my point. But the experts here have apparently determined it's a shite American bridge and bemoaned the lack of spending on quality infrastructure.

That said, there's a point to that argument -- but they have no idea if it has anything to do with why this bridge collapsed.

We could as easily say that that South Korean shipbuilding looks absolute crap given it appears there were power/steering failures that caused the accident.
Click to expand...

I doubt there was anything wrong with the bridge.

This is a view of the supports:

They're not single monolithic supports, but no-one would design a bridge in the 1970s in case a ship in 2024 would hit it. Hit one of those feet, and it would unbalance. Simple momentum laws would only have one outcome - concrete doesn't bend so it shatters or twists the whole leg structure.

It may be a design not used now, but I don't see any reason to decide it's a bad design - 50 years working runs counter to that. It seems plain strange to me to go to the idea that it's a bad bridge.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Crew informed the port of a power issue - confirmed in a press conference just now.
Click to expand...
Just watching that.

The older guy is a bit sketchy on cars having gone in. At first he said 8 workers and no cars. A minute ago he said ‘not at this time’ when asked if he knew how many cars went in, and the condition of the occupants.
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
Just watching that.

The older guy is a bit sketchy on cars having gone in. At first he said 8 workers and no cars. A minute ago he said ‘not at this time’ when asked if he knew how many cars went in, and the condition of the occupants.
Click to expand...

Sounds like they stopped more going on, but it's 3 miles long.
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
Yes, so many lives saved by the sounds of it, but undetermined how many cars and/or pedestrians were on it when it collapsed.
Click to expand...
There's a video posted earlier (which is sped up) and it seems that there aren't many lights going right to left for some time before the ship hits the bridge, which is hopeful. I thought at first that was just pure luck but seems they may have stopped traffic in time to prevent much worse. Hopefully not many pedestrians either with it being early hours of the morning.
 
Citizen of Legoland said:
There's a video posted earlier (which is sped up) and it seems that there aren't many lights going right to left for some time before the ship hits the bridge, which is hopeful. I thought at first that was just pure luck but seems they may have stopped traffic in time to prevent much worse. Hopefully not many pedestrians either with it being early hours of the morning.
Click to expand...

Would be an odd place/time to go for a walk!

With a 3km (not miles as I put earlier) run, there would presumably be warning signs and a long run to get to the central spans.
 
BlueMonkey79 said:
In the forces (Royal Navy) we aimed to have
A) Swimmer
Or
B) RIB (rigid inflatable)

In the water by 6 minutes with a man overboard scenario.
Click to expand...
I've done sea survival training (now called BSSC) at Bovisand. It was -3 and snowing when we did it, and the water temperature was 5 degrees. Even in a one-size-fits-nobody, single use immersion suit with a thermal liner it was still a massive shock when you hit the water. Lovely and toasty when you get in the life raft though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top