Key reason why we performed so poorly

[scenecreamer]

Bollocks to this whole thread. Milner played well and gave Evra lots of trouble. But Johnson in? A boy to do a mans job? What a terrible decision.

 

[Soulboy]

We just can't keep trotting out the same old mantra... "just another one/two/three new signings and we'll be there..." bollocks.

How's about bringing in better coaching staff? Or trainers? Or someone who will make the best use of the incredible footballing resources we already have at our disposal?

But this "let's get the chequebook out" mentality is even starting to piss me off!

Why not make the players we've already got... better!

You're not wrong mate.

This really does have to be the last window where we sign several new players.

From now on it really should be a case of minor tweaks and only when absolutely needed or something way too good to turn down.

agreed

does this mean i can start slagging off bob now

Patience.

Your time will come... ;-))<br /><br />-- Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:57 pm --<br /><br />

Hate to say this,we were totally outclassed for 94 mins.Rags looked 6 yards quicker all over the pitch,they were out 15 mins warming up before we came out,and so things never got any better.Our lack of pace really concerns me,we can't play counter attack cos no one will take responsibility and run with the ball,our ball retention was shocking,movement off the ball non existent in fact it was embarrassing,I could say lots more but I would end up slagging our team,which I don't want to do.However without at least 3 more class signings we will never finish above rags and chelski.Then the next problem is offloading more players,have we got the players to take us to the next level,who are our matchwinners,do we have any,if so av we enough,I don't see enough.great journey home yesterday great laugh with the lads minus 2 coach windows,best part of the day,says it all. Keep the faith!

We just can't keep trotting out the same old mantra... "just another one/two/three new signings and we'll be there..." bollocks.

How's about bringing in better coaching staff? Or trainers? Or someone who will make the best use of the incredible footballing resources we already have at our disposal?

But this "let's get the chequebook out" mentality is even starting to piss me off!

Why not make the players we've already got... better!

Agreed. Although I kind of thought last season the coaching staff (or someone -possibly the cat) did make some of our players 'better'. Or did I imagine it?

Did we win the FA Cup? Did we finish 3rd? Is our season doomed because the sloppy gits went to sleep yesterday?

All these questions and more will be answered on this weeks 'Blue Moon'

So you think we just keep on spending? Every time we detect a weakness, we splash out another £10m or £15m to rectifty the problem?

If you read back on my post, it was simply a retort to the view that to get where we want we need another 3 quality players. We've been saying that since I've been a City supporter!

I would suggest that instaed of another 3 players we actually improve our playing style, maybe utilise the "deadwood" that we have, that we make the best use of our resources withour the first reaction being that we need to spend again!

This has nothing to do with how much we achieved last saeson. That's gone. It's this season that matters now.

We've already signed 4 players, maybe another 2 or 3 to come. We can't keep on that approach, surely?

Oh, and for every Kompany and Zabaleta that the manager improved, we can balance that with a worsening Balotelli, Adam Johnson, Kolarov and Milner.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I couldn't disagree more. Milner really was not the problem yesterday and in my opinion (and some others, I am sure) just had a bad match, as did many, many of our squad. Milner has all the natural skills of Barry but is faster, stronger, and has youth on his side. This means, even if you are correct that Barry is better right now, and I think there is a very good argument to be made that you are note, the only difference between them are coachable skills. I don't know about you lads, but given a choice between two players that have the same natural ability, one being young, the other seeing the last of his productive playing years--and I have to choose among them--I will select the younger player and coach them to make better decisions. I think Barry will be a valuable squad player for several years to come, but Milner could be the future if trained and formed correctly.

Here are my observations for our poor performance yesterday after watching the match three times (what can I say, I am a masochist):

1. Lescott and Kompany had a very bad match. Both gave the ball away inside our own half severals times and Lescott at least twice in our final third to a striker no less. They are both much better than they showed.

2. Far, far too much space in the midfield, as was pointed out by others in this thread. There were 5-10 minute periods when first Carrick, and then Cleverly, were completely uncontested on the ball allowing them to spray balls about the pitch with near impunity.

3. Balotelli was being manhandled by Vidic for most of the match with so much as a talking to by Dowd (this was the case with many other instances and players as well, though we were no saints). I am not saying this as an excuse for Balo's poor performance, but it is difficult to get into a match when you are aware that the other team are allowed to do nearly anything they like with little punishment while you get a talking to (or a card) for complaining about it.

4. De Jong's passing was horrific. I say this even though I was wearing my De Jong 09/10 shirt while watching the match. It was the worst distribution I have seen from Nigel since last year's match against Liverpool.

5. United were better. I despise having to say that but it is true. They were fitter, they fought for every ball, and they looked to get forward at every opportunity. We looked lethargic and winded.

All of this could be a great outcome, though, if it serves as a wake-up and motivation to march on with more focus and will.

 

[Dax777]

James Milner playing instead of Gareth Barry.

The anti-barry brigade who's critique is usually based on intellect like 'he's slow or has a larger than average arse' fail to understand how critical he is to the team and how we retain possession and subsequently have more control throughout the course of the game. He's still the best player in our squad at this in a central midfield context. There are of course better players out there, i.e. xabi alonso, xavi, arteta in terms of his type, but we haven't seen this as a key area of improvement, and instead wasted time strengthening the defence again, and looking for other wide players.

Milner offers nothing in terms of CL/title winning football capability. He's a work horse who won't get on the ball centrally with any real composure, class or football intelligence/vision. He offers endeavour, but unfortunately, against Utd, we needed more control in the game, more possession. Yaya Toure hasnt played the Barry role enough, nor has he played along side De Jong enough in a deeper role. De Jong/Barry combination in games where we need to control the tempo in order to get Silva on the ball in key areas, movement, spreading the play around the opposition, is still the best we have going into this season, unless we sign someone else.

Key thought experiment here would be this. If Milner were to be sold to Spurs or Liverpool - would you seriously worry? I wouldn't. I wouldn't believe we are giving a top player away to a rival. He wouldn't offer them anything more than they already have now. If we were to sell Adam Johnson to one of those clubs for example, I'd certainly worry more.

Barry should have started. Milner shouldnt. The result might have been the same, but we'd have performed better in midfield and had more control / possession for sure.

I think Ideologically we are jus not going to match up well against Arsenal, United or even Totenham for that matter (even thought I expect us to certainly beat the latter on most ocassions) because they are all better playing teams. Frankly the way I see it, only one of Dejong, Yaya, Barry and Milner should be starting if we intend to use 2 strikers. We need 3 attacking mids who know how to pass the ball around efficiently. As it stands we have 1 in Silva. Granted he is a very good one but one is not enough against great passing teams like United. We need to be able to hold possession against these teams. Aguero will help with that up top, but the likes of Sneidjer, Mata and Nasri is what will even the score for us.

So long as we continue to peddle 3 to 4 predominantly defensive midfielders, we will struggle to retain possession. Esprcially in the light of having possesion adverse defenders in Lescott, Kolarov or Clichy and Micah starting for us. We have no choice but to overcompensate by having superior passing and movement midfielders.

 

[LoveCity]

I think Ideologically we are jus not going to match up well against Arsenal, United or even Totenham for that matter (even thought I expect us to certainly beat the latter on most ocassions) because they are all better playing teams. Frankly the way I see it, only one of Dejong, Yaya, Barry and Milner should be starting if we intend to use 2 strikers. We need 3 attacking mids who know how to pass the ball around efficiently. As it stands we have 1 in Silva. Granted he is a very good one but one is not enough against great passing teams like United. We need to be able to hold possession against these teams. Aguero will help with that up top, but the likes of Sneidjer, Mata and Nasri is what will even the score for us.

So long as we continue to peddle 3 to 4 predominantly defensive midfielders, we will struggle to retain possession. Esprcially in the light of having possesion adverse defenders in Lescott, Kolarov or Clichy and Micah starting for us. We have no choice but to overcompensate by having superior passing and movement midfielders.

I agree in general but I wouldn't cut it down to one from Nige/Barry/Yaya/Milner, but two as Yaya (at least when 100% and not the self-parody from yesterday) can contribute defensively and attacking. If we only played one in the holding role we could easily revert to Hughes era and leak as many goals as we score. I'd start De Jong and Yaya for the most important games as we could still have Silva, Nasri, Aguero, and either Dzeko or Balotelli playing.

 

[mannycity]

Please wen you respond,address the real issues and problems,our lack of pace,middle and front.lack of running,and movement off the ball,not just yesterday but last season in general.and the mention of 3 players,is to take us to the next level,with the clubs ambition we can't be patient and wait for players to improve and develop,managers don't get that sort of time,for the money we pay for players we should be getting the end product or very close to it.

 

[gelly]

I think City need a ball playing central midfielder in the mold of Xavi, Alonso, Pirlo, Scholes. These players are rare and clubs would be hard pressed to sell anyhow.

Sniejder will fit into Mancini's plans as he is more offensive and can fit in front of 2 defensive midfielders. Barry is not good enough to play this role week in and out, in a league winning team and in the latter stages of a Champions League run.

Sniejder is crucial to be signed.

 

[Dax777]

Please wen you respond,address the real issues and problems,our lack of pace,middle and front.lack of running,and movement off the ball,not just yesterday but last season in general.and the mention of 3 players,is to take us to the next level,with the clubs ambition we can't be patient and wait for players to improve and develop,managers don't get that sort of time,for the money we pay for players we should be getting the end product or very close to it.

I don't think Pace plays much of a role here. Granted a fast guy will bring a different dimension, but our main problem is not speed, it is ability to pass and move for a return pass consistently. On too many occasions yesterday, Yaya, Nigel, Milner Barry and Silva passed the ball to no one in particular. It is one thing when you make a poor pass that is intercepted, it is something else when you make a pass that is not read by any of your teammates and no one moved into the appropriate vacuum for the pass. Both types of errors occurred constantly yesterday. Thus we need players who can make the better pass, and those who understand where the pass should go, and often go there instinctively.

This is not a problem just bringing in talent will fix, but you need the right type of talent to mask the problem as gelling occurs

 

[seafordblue]

After Barry came on, they didn't create one decent chance apart from the Kompany error.

Barry rarely loses possession, wins the majority of his challenges and dare I say it, has more attacking vision than De Jong.

I would like to see Barry as the holding player, Toure as the midfield link player with Nasri & Silva as the forward creative players.

Milner - back to Villa.

 

[ranchblue]

i would love to see xabi alonso here but its never going to happen the perfect player for what we need
, somebody to pick the ball up and find silva and co. For me Milner does not suit our style of play he is a textbook english football and we just do not play that way.
Barry is underrated by many city fans and is in our best 11, we did seem to have more of the ball when he came on

 

[FishFoot]

Milner - back to Villa.

Please.

 

[Tricky Dickys Right Foot Shot]

James Milner playing instead of Gareth Barry.

The anti-barry brigade who's critique is usually based on intellect like 'he's slow or has a larger than average arse' fail to understand how critical he is to the team and how we retain possession and subsequently have more control throughout the course of the game. He's still the best player in our squad at this in a central midfield context. There are of course better players out there, i.e. xabi alonso, xavi, arteta in terms of his type, but we haven't seen this as a key area of improvement, and instead wasted time strengthening the defence again, and looking for other wide players.

Milner offers nothing in terms of CL/title winning football capability. He's a work horse who won't get on the ball centrally with any real composure, class or football intelligence/vision. He offers endeavour, but unfortunately, against Utd, we needed more control in the game, more possession. Yaya Toure hasnt played the Barry role enough, nor has he played along side De Jong enough in a deeper role. De Jong/Barry combination in games where we need to control the tempo in order to get Silva on the ball in key areas, movement, spreading the play around the opposition, is still the best we have going into this season, unless we sign someone else.

Key thought experiment here would be this. If Milner were to be sold to Spurs or Liverpool - would you seriously worry? I wouldn't. I wouldn't believe we are giving a top player away to a rival. He wouldn't offer them anything more than they already have now. If we were to sell Adam Johnson to one of those clubs for example, I'd certainly worry more.

Barry should have started. Milner shouldnt. The result might have been the same, but we'd have performed better in midfield and had more control / possession for sure.

No chance Gio lad.

Yaya and De Jong were both equally as shit as eachother probably the worse I've seen them play since they both joined City and personally Milner was better then the 2, Gareth Barry wouldn't of made a slightest bit of difference to be honest...

 

[ZabbaFC]

I dont think Milner is appreiciated as much as he should be, i think alot of his work goes unrecognised

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Milner - back to Villa.

Please.

you cant have him for free, we want a foot spa and 1/2 lbs of pear drops

 

[Cry Me A Weaver]

I dont think Milner is appreiciated as much as he should be, i think alot of his work goes unrecognised

Agree 100%. Admittedly Milner hasn't produced on a regular basis but he has hardly been given a chance. It was nearly xmas before Yaya strung a few decent games together and he was given luxury of playing in same position every week.

Milner does have to up his game and I hope he eventually does. He has a great engine and top attitude. Zab didn't shine from the off and neither did De Jong, in fact there are several players we all love in current squad that took time to adapt. We need to be patient with him, and the mean time we have Barry.

 

[g180aj]

James Milner playing instead of Gareth Barry.

The anti-barry brigade who's critique is usually based on intellect like 'he's slow or has a larger than average arse' fail to understand how critical he is to the team and how we retain possession and subsequently have more control throughout the course of the game. He's still the best player in our squad at this in a central midfield context. There are of course better players out there, i.e. xabi alonso, xavi, arteta in terms of his type, but we haven't seen this as a key area of improvement, and instead wasted time strengthening the defence again, and looking for other wide players.

Milner offers nothing in terms of CL/title winning football capability. He's a work horse who won't get on the ball centrally with any real composure, class or football intelligence/vision. He offers endeavour, but unfortunately, against Utd, we needed more control in the game, more possession. Yaya Toure hasnt played the Barry role enough, nor has he played along side De Jong enough in a deeper role. De Jong/Barry combination in games where we need to control the tempo in order to get Silva on the ball in key areas, movement, spreading the play around the opposition, is still the best we have going into this season, unless we sign someone else.

Key thought experiment here would be this. If Milner were to be sold to Spurs or Liverpool - would you seriously worry? I wouldn't. I wouldn't believe we are giving a top player away to a rival. He wouldn't offer them anything more than they already have now. If we were to sell Adam Johnson to one of those clubs for example, I'd certainly worry more.

Barry should have started. Milner shouldnt. The result might have been the same, but we'd have performed better in midfield and had more control / possession for sure.

or maybe if he played instead of yaya who was completely fucked all game and wasn't even in the game what so ever

 

[B\connellblue]

Both Barry and Milner are average players. For me we went and made the same mistake two windows running. Neither are good enough for where we are going. A professional footballer playing for both club and country should be able to pass a ball forward and further than 10 yards. Having said that neither was to blame for yesterdays fiasco, that honour rests squarely on the shoulders of bobby. If he can't motivate the players for a derby game however insignificant in the greater scheme of things than I'm seriously beginning to worry.

Pace Bobby and a bit of fucking passion as well

 

[bobby chariots]

Pace and passion! Yes! The key ingredients of the premier League......thats why its the best in the world.
There were plenty of games last season where we played with both. We need it every game, without fail.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

All in all it was just a bad day at the office, anything that could go wrong did!

Moving forwards though Barry instead of Milner or Milner instead of Barry is not a question I want to be pondering the answer to because neither of them are good enough!

Barry - Too slow. Ponderous. Gives stupid free kicks away. Huge backside. Carries a fridge freezer on his back.

Milner - Not sure what type of player he thinks he is. Not creative enough to play as a winger or in an advanced midfielder role. Not required defensively in a midfield that contains NDJ and Yaya.

Both players are mid table players, none of them are good enough to be regulars in a team that has aspirations of winning a title!

 

[Ash Blue]

Pace and passion! Yes! The key ingredients of the premier League......thats why its the best in the world.
There were plenty of games last season where we played with both. We need it every game, without fail.

This , from the first to the last whistle, c'mon Bobby sort it out for Monday!!