Kicking off in Leicester

[blueparrot]

Patriotism,or a lack of it in these cases.....is a bit different,and certainly a huge factor in why there are still huge divisions in this country.

Maybe if these communities displayed more commitment and loyalty to the country of their birth,then this country would be far more harmonious.

We may support different clubs,but when you are born English,you almost certainly (or should) support England.

It's sport there is no should, my son was born in Scotland he supports City because I do, will his children or will they support a Scottish team, will they support Scotland or England. They can do what they like it really isn't that big a deal.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Why are you pretending that national identity is a childish one dimensional thing that ca be reduced to "You were born here, you're english, you must support England"?

There are loads of people on here that support Wales, Scotland or Ireland in sporting terms despite being born and raised in England. Why would it be different for people of Pakistani or Indian heritage?

The vast majority support the country of their birth,as you know.

That isnt the case with Pakistani or Indian heritage,as you know.

 

[oldius]

We are into complex issues of identity here and I imagine that many born in England do not identify, in the first instance, as English. I certainly know of many Scots, Welsh and Irish that were born in England who identify as being Welsh, Scots or Irish before English. I know of many people who identify themselves as British Arab or British Pakistani too. Your place of birth is often not necessarily how you identify or who you feel you are.

In this particular case, it appears that the fighting has some basis in religion, which transcends national boundary anyway.

 

[domalino]

The vast majority support the country of their birth,as you know.

That isnt the case with Pakistani or Indian heritage,as you know.

I don't agree with your assumptions, go to a West Indies test match at Edgebaston and you will be surrounded by English born Windies supporters using sport as a way to connect to their heritage, or a 6N game in Cardiff and every third person you see will have no trace of a welsh accent.

However, if there was more prevalence to supporting the country of their heritage in the British Pakistani and British Indian communities then the reasons for that are surely linked with the decades of racial abuse and awful treatment those immigrants recieved in the 50's, 60's and onwards which made them form tight knit insular communities, hold on to their heritage more strongly and stopped them from integrating in the way you're talking about.

Honestly I'm not sure why you care. Multiculturalism is not about all cultural identities being subjugated to the one of the parent country, and supporting Pakistan or India in cricket does not make these people less British or unpatriotic.

(it's also not really related to these religous tensions)

 

[FantasyIreland]

supporting Pakistan or India in cricket does not make these people less British or unpatriotic.

(it's also not really related to these religous tensions)

It really does go hand in hand,in both respects.

There is deep issue in this country because of religion and because of integration.While we have entire communities lending their loyalties and patriotism elsewhere,and attempting to introduce their religious fanaticism on a much grander scale....we will always live in a fractured and divisive society.

You are living in LaLa land.....i cant buy into your idealism.

 

[VOOMER]

Should do what the Dutch do. Find them a suitable field, direct them to it and then let them get on with it.

And stream it.

 

[Nails]

It really does go hand in hand,in both respects.

There is deep issue in this country because of religion and because of integration.While we have entire communities lending their loyalties and patriotism elsewhere,and attempting to introduce their religious fanaticism on a much grander scale....we will always live in a fractured and divisive society.

You are living in LaLa land.....i cant buy into your idealism.

It's much more nuanced than you allow for. I was born in England to Irish parents, who got dog's abuse from the English for at least three decades after they arrived. But I supported England in football and cricket, UNLESS they played Ireland (which wasn't often in cricket when I was growing up). That may be a closer approximation with what happens to other incomers and their kids, too.

 

[johnmc]

It really does go hand in hand,in both respects.

There is deep issue in this country because of religion and because of integration.While we have entire communities lending their loyalties and patriotism elsewhere,and attempting to introduce their religious fanaticism on a much grander scale....we will always live in a fractured and divisive society.

You are living in LaLa land.....i cant buy into your idealism.

Bullshit and blinkered

 

[FantasyIreland]

It's much more nuanced than you allow for. I was born in England to Irish parents, who got dog's abuse from the English for at least three decades after they arrived. But I supported England in football and cricket, UNLESS they played Ireland (which wasn't often in cricket when I was growing up). That may be a closer approximation with what happens to other incomers and their kids, too.

Maybe....but there us also truth in what i wrote,no matter how many of you want to ignore the issue or pretend otherwise.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Bullshit and blinkered

Coincidentally,thats my thinking on this issue too.