Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

[mackenzie]

Labour is split in a very fundamental way, and it isn't rocket science. One part wants to stick to the principles of why it came into being, and the other wants to get power no matter what it takes.
It's a real fuck up and I do actually understand both sides. My head is with those who want power but my heart is with those who are determined to shout out those principles that give those who have been forgotten a voice that all the others are ignoring.
The problem is that we are now a centrist populace but that some can't see another route.

 

[mat]

Labour is split in a very fundamental way, and it isn't rocket science. One part wants to stick to the principles of why it came into being, and the other wants to get power no matter what it takes.
It's a real fuck up and I do actually understand both sides. My head is with those who want power but my heart is with those who are determined to shout out those principles that give those who have been forgotten a voice that all the others are ignoring.
The problem is that we are now a centrist populace but that some can't see another route.

not sure if it was on here or i heard it on radio? A commentator said The tories want a soft left labour as it makes their job easier. A labour Party full of MP's who core from Nursing,Teaching, Bus drivers, Construction backgrounds etc would scare them shitless.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

not sure if it was on here or i heard it on radio? A commentator said The tories want a soft left labour as it makes their job easier. A labour Party full of MP's who core from Nursing,Teaching, Bus drivers, Construction backgrounds etc would scare them shitless.

Why would it?

 

[The perfect fumble]

who governs Britain –

a profile of MPs in the

2015 parliament

https://smithinstitutethinktank.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/who-governs-britain.pdf


the backgrounds of MPs in the new parliament:

• The ‘average’ MP is male, aged 51 and went to state school

then to university (but not Oxbridge). He is most likely to

have previously worked in politics.

• Remarkably 33% of MPs went to fee paying private schools

(compared with a national average of around 7%). Around

52% of Conservative MPs; 17% Lib Dems; and 12% Labour

MPs went to fee paying schools. These results were similar

to 2010.

• The gender balance continues to improve – however

parliament has still a long way to go. In 1987 women made

up just 6% of all MPs, in the last parliament it improved

to 22% and today it has increased to 29%. There is still a

split by party with Labour far ahead with 41% of MPs being

women, followed by SNP (36%) and then the Conservatives

with just one in five. The Lib Dems now have no women in

parliament.

• A quarter of all MPs have a occupational background in

politics (the largest of any occupational group) highlighting

the professionalisation of politics. The occupational

background of MPs continues to be ever more biased

toward business and the ‘metropolitan professions’,

particularly finance, law, public affairs, and politics.

However, there are major disparities between

• the parties. For example, 4% of Labour MPs have at

some point worked in finance as compared with 25% for

Conservatives. An alternative trend emerges with the public

and voluntary sector, which is dominated by Labour MPs.

As to be expected most of the blue collar and trade union

occupations are with Labour MPs

• 2015 election saw new MPs form 25% of those elected.

This election therefore did not witness the same influx

of new MPs as in 2010 when 35% were not MPs in the

previous parliament (although higher than 18% figure in

2005). The SNP unsurprisingly had the biggest intake of

new MPs (90%), then Labour (21%), then Tories (19%). The

Lib Dems had none.

• The average age of MPs is 51 years. This is line with average

since 1992 of around the 50 year mark. There are slight

differences between the main parties with the SNP the

youngest (44) and Labour the oldest (53). Overall Labour,

Lib Dems and Tories saw the average age of MPs rise

slightly. 63% of MPs are aged between 40 and 59 years and

just 15% below.

• The overwhelming majority of MPs are university educated

and nearly a quarter (23%) went to Oxford or Cambridge

(similar to 2005 and 2010). Around 45% of Conservative

MPs were from Oxbridge ; 14% for Labour; and 13% for

the Lib Dems. Perhaps unsurprisingly, no-one from the SNP

went to Oxbridge.

 

[Vic]

Labour is split in a very fundamental way, and it isn't rocket science. One part wants to stick to the principles of why it came into being, and the other wants to get power no matter what it takes.
It's a real fuck up and I do actually understand both sides. My head is with those who want power but my heart is with those who are determined to shout out those principles that give those who have been forgotten a voice that all the others are ignoring.
The problem is that we are now a centrist populace but that some can't see another route.

Principles are all very well (I agree with most of Corbyn's principles) but - at least without electoral reform - Labour with him as leader means the system will just condemn us to perpetual Tory government and what use are your principles in a foodbank? (Not that most Corbynistas have anything to do with foodbanks on either side of the counter.) The rot set in with prosperity, when most people do all right and want low taxes. Revolution needs a lot of oppressed people to work. It's useless when the poor are a minority. Shelley could write the Masque of Anarchy after Peterloo calling the masses to rise like lions, but his last line just isn't true anymore.

Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you:
Ye are many—they are few!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Principles are all very well (I agree with most of Corbyn's principles) but - at least without electoral reform - Labour with him as leader means the system will just condemn us to perpetual Tory government and what use are your principles in a foodbank? (Not that most Corbynistas have anything to do with foodbanks on either side of the counter.) The rot set in with prosperity, when most people do all right and want low taxes. Revolution needs a lot of oppressed people to work. It's useless when the poor are a minority. Shelley could write the Masque of Anarchy after Peterloo calling the masses to rise like lions, but his last line just isn't true anymore.

Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you:
Ye are many—they are few!

Completely agree, mate. I posted along similar lines on another thread (I think, could have been this one) about the tyranny of the many over the few. As rising living standards since WW2 have lifted many working class people into the middle classes, those left behind have an increasingly diminished voice. As long as the middle classes are kept relatively satisfied economically, then the system maintains itself, give or take. In that sense, capitalism has become a self-perpetuating economic model. It's not a situation I'm at all comfortable with, and certainly doesn't make for a cohesive society that is at ease with itself.

I'm certainly not sure what the answer is, or even if there is one.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Every Labour MP to be reselected in 2018 due to boundary changes.

 

[urban genie]

Every Labour MP to be reselected in 2018 due to boundary changes.

Well that's not too far away and I think the last month won't be fogotten by members, a little nudge to those not in the main coup to realise their jobs are on the line if when Corbyn wins again they don't get behind him.

 

[Blue Til Death]

Ha ha that advert at the top of this page for Samsung made me laugh, read the words of the slogan, as if you were an Irate cockney... Sorry but just had to see if its only me it amused, I dare say it is ;-)

 

[cibaman]

Well that's not too far away and I think the last month won't be fogotten by members, a little nudge to those not in the main coup to realise their jobs are on the line if when Corbyn wins again they don't get behind him.

They'll be too busy getting behind the leader of their breakaway party

 

[law74]

I think the mess in the Labour party is just great. Only outcome can be that the Labour party splits and we end up with two left-leaning parties meaning the left vote will be divided between the two and Conservatives in government for the next 20+ years. Great news :-)

Labour and the Greens, while on the right will be the Tories,UKIP and the new blairites party.

 

[SWP's back]

Every Labour MP to be reselected in 2018 due to boundary changes.

Nothing to do with boundary changes and all to do with Jezzer taking the nuclear option.

Labour about to be split in two.

May as PM until 2025 at the very least.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

May as PM until 2025 at the very least.

I shudder to think how fucked she'll look by then.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

I shudder to think how fucked she'll look by then.

She really will look like the Emperor from Star Wars by then

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

She really will look like the Emperor from Star Wars by January

 

[whp.blue]

She really will look like the Emperor from Star Wars by then

Ah you forgot the "with tits"caveat that will make all the difference for some

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Nothing to do with boundary changes and all to do with Jezzer taking the nuclear option.

Labour about to be split in two.

May as PM until 2025 at the very least.

I doubt there will be a split, the whole idea of infiltrating the labour party is to prevent them from getting in to power. If Corbyn really wants them out re-selection will see to it.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Ah you forgot the "with tits"caveat that will make all the difference for some

In this particular instance, I really don't think it will.

 

[SWP's back]

I doubt there will be a split, the whole idea of infiltrating the labour party is to prevent them from getting in to power. If Corbyn really wants them out re-selection will see to it.

There will be a visible split for the next two and a bit years. Those who are against him and know they will be unable to stand for reelection will more or less be independents for the next few years.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

There will be a visible split for the next two and a bit years. Those who are against him and know they will be unable to stand for reelection will more or less be independents for the next few years.

That is terrible news for the country, that needs a viable opposition now as much as it ever has. Labour are fucking themselves and the country, the PLP are a bunch of self serving cunts who need to leave the party or suck it up.