Lancashire CCC

es1

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the wrong side of the pennines
niall_mcfc said:
eshiers1 said:
i while back i checked the lancs recent history to see how many times we'd scored 400 in the first innings of a 4 day game, before the middle of this season we'd done it twice in 18 months, how poor is that?!

i remember when we had loye, chilly, law and hooper smashing centuries and breaking records all over the place a few seasons back, and we still had others down the order to smash some runs if needed

whats gone wrong?!

We dont have 3 of the 4 you mentioned, we havent replaced them and Chilton is past it now

thats true!
we just have not replaced these players with anyone who can score 1500+ runs a season

and until we do we wont ever challenge for the championship
 

JoeMercer'sWay

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Times Teams in Div 1(+ Surrey) have scored over 400 in their first innings:

Nottinghamshire-4.
Somerset-4.
Yorkshire-7.
Lancashire-1.
Durham-1.
Hampshire-4.

That's the top 6.

Surrey-4(2 of those we had a Ramprakash 200, 1 of them we had a Ramprakash 179 so it shows how reliant we are on him).
 

niall_mcfc

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JoeMercer'sWay said:
Times Teams in Div 1(+ Surrey) have scored over 400 in their first innings:

Nottinghamshire-4.
Somerset-4.
Yorkshire-7.
Lancashire-1.
Durham-1.
Hampshire-4.

That's the top 6.

Surrey-4(2 of those we had a Ramprakash 200, 1 of them we had a Ramprakash 179 so it shows how reliant we are on him).

Thanks for that mate just shows how poor we are in the 1st innings. Also we cant compare us and Durham really because they have had a shocking 1 off season and this shows us why because they have underperformed with the bat.
 

Shands

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There’s some very valid points being made but for what it’s worth I don’t think we’re in as bad a shape as is coming across. It’s generally accepted that thanks to two divsions the County Championship is now a strong competition and that the depth in the English pool is as good as it’s been for some time. Now if we can all sit here and see numerous frailties in our team and yet were still up there challenging the top sides then surely that’s a good thing? As I said before if our low ebb still has us up where it matters, then imagine what it’ll be like when we rectify these issues!

I agree completely that the batting from the top order this summer has not been acceptable by any means and needs to be addressed. Horton has been poor the last two seasons but the two summers previous to that he was excellent (his struggles in the championship seem to have coincided with him playing all forms of cricket which is ironic given his very good record in CB40 this year). Hopefully hard work over the winter will see a return to form from him.

For his part Croft has had a good season and more importantly scored runs at times where we’ve really needed them. Chilton and Moore I have my doubts about and Smith should not be batting any higher than 6 or 7. On the plus side though I read the 2ndxi reports on the Lancs fans forum and Brown, Proctor, Goodwin, Agathangelou, Perry and Bentley all seem to have shown enough to suggest there is talent there if they can be given the chance.
Cross is now getting his opportunity in the side and is performing well. His attitude as an aggressive keeper batsmen could be just the fresh approach the side needs, plus as m27 says it’ll free up space in the 2’s for someone like Joe Davies to get experience.

We’re well covered for spin with Parry, Kerrigan and Lilley all showing enough to suggest that Keedy shouldn’t leave a huge hole when he calls it a day.

The area that does concern me is the seam bowling. I really can’t see how Chapple can go on much longer and he will be a huge loss. Anderson looks to be entrenched with England for the foreseeable future so what options does that leave? Mahmood is very frustrating but still generally at championship level a decent enough performer (and now chipping in with runs). Hogg and Smith are useful 3rd or 4th seamers/all rounders but in no way leaders of the attack. I don’t see Montgomery, Newby, Powell or Cheetham as real options and unfortunately I’m not aware of much coming up behind them, although I read Mohammed Abid is promising. If we need to invest in one area then I think this would be it. Up until the last week I would have suggested trying to get in Mohammed Aamer as the overseas player but obviously that’s a non starter now.

More than anything I think what we lack is not talent but a psychological edge, that self belief that comes from winning when it matters. In the 90’s the side had a swagger and intimidated the opposition because no situation felt insurmountable. This team doesn’t have players who have experienced seizing the big moments and winning when the pressure is on. This is where the ongoing fitness situation with Flintoff is interesting. If he could get healthy enough even just to bat (and sadly I have my doubts he will), I think he could galvanise this side in the same way Akram did. In the past Fred has been there with England and done it when it matters and I could actually see him as a captain who would relax the others and fill them with real energy and belief. I suspect the likes of Croft, Cross and Parry would thrive off him because they strike me as having the right mentality.

Finance is going to have a big part to play too. All the counties seem to be up against it just now but that may work in our favour as if there’s no money to recruit out with the county then we’ll be forced to promote from within and give these younger lads their opportunity. The more exposure they can get at a young age the more chance they have to learn and develop that winning mentality we need, rather than stagnating and becoming demoralised in a 2xi comfort zone. Also because of finances some tough decisions may need to be made. If Flintoff and even Chapple and Keedy are struggling fitness wise, they’re unlikely to improve much and at their age should perhaps be moved out to free up a sizeable chunk of the wage bill. It could be a case of taking 2 big steps back to in time take 4 forward.

I sense the next few months could be interesting regardless....and at least we're not Surrey ;-)
 

JoeMercer'sWay

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Shands said:
There’s some very valid points being made but for what it’s worth I don’t think we’re in as bad a shape as is coming across. It’s generally accepted that thanks to two divsions the County Championship is now a strong competition and that the depth in the English pool is as good as it’s been for some time. Now if we can all sit here and see numerous frailties in our team and yet were still up there challenging the top sides then surely that’s a good thing? As I said before if our low ebb still has us up where it matters, then imagine what it’ll be like when we rectify these issues!

I agree completely that the batting from the top order this summer has not been acceptable by any means and needs to be addressed. Horton has been poor the last two seasons but the two summers previous to that he was excellent (his struggles in the championship seem to have coincided with him playing all forms of cricket which is ironic given his very good record in CB40 this year). Hopefully hard work over the winter will see a return to form from him.

For his part Croft has had a good season and more importantly scored runs at times where we’ve really needed them. Chilton and Moore I have my doubts about and Smith should not be batting any higher than 6 or 7. On the plus side though I read the 2ndxi reports on the Lancs fans forum and Brown, Proctor, Goodwin, Agathangelou, Perry and Bentley all seem to have shown enough to suggest there is talent there if they can be given the chance.
Cross is now getting his opportunity in the side and is performing well. His attitude as an aggressive keeper batsmen could be just the fresh approach the side needs, plus as m27 says it’ll free up space in the 2’s for someone like Joe Davies to get experience.

We’re well covered for spin with Parry, Kerrigan and Lilley all showing enough to suggest that Keedy shouldn’t leave a huge hole when he calls it a day.

The area that does concern me is the seam bowling. I really can’t see how Chapple can go on much longer and he will be a huge loss. Anderson looks to be entrenched with England for the foreseeable future so what options does that leave? Mahmood is very frustrating but still generally at championship level a decent enough performer (and now chipping in with runs). Hogg and Smith are useful 3rd or 4th seamers/all rounders but in no way leaders of the attack. I don’t see Montgomery, Newby, Powell or Cheetham as real options and unfortunately I’m not aware of much coming up behind them, although I read Mohammed Abid is promising. If we need to invest in one area then I think this would be it. Up until the last week I would have suggested trying to get in Mohammed Aamer as the overseas player but obviously that’s a non starter now.

More than anything I think what we lack is not talent but a psychological edge, that self belief that comes from winning when it matters. In the 90’s the side had a swagger and intimidated the opposition because no situation felt insurmountable. This team doesn’t have players who have experienced seizing the big moments and winning when the pressure is on. This is where the ongoing fitness situation with Flintoff is interesting. If he could get healthy enough even just to bat (and sadly I have my doubts he will), I think he could galvanise this side in the same way Akram did. In the past Fred has been there with England and done it when it matters and I could actually see him as a captain who would relax the others and fill them with real energy and belief. I suspect the likes of Croft, Cross and Parry would thrive off him because they strike me as having the right mentality.

Finance is going to have a big part to play too. All the counties seem to be up against it just now but that may work in our favour as if there’s no money to recruit out with the county then we’ll be forced to promote from within and give these younger lads their opportunity. The more exposure they can get at a young age the more chance they have to learn and develop that winning mentality we need, rather than stagnating and becoming demoralised in a 2xi comfort zone. Also because of finances some tough decisions may need to be made. If Flintoff and even Chapple and Keedy are struggling fitness wise, they’re unlikely to improve much and at their age should perhaps be moved out to free up a sizeable chunk of the wage bill. It could be a case of taking 2 big steps back to in time take 4 forward.

I sense the next few months could be interesting regardless....and at least we're not Surrey ;-)

Well we're falling apart against Worcs but at least we beat you this year :), and stopped you winning the title a couple of years ago if I remember right, something along those lines anyway ;)
 

niall_mcfc

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Doing our best to balls this game up. Need 168 to win and we are 10-2, why they have messed around with the batting order again i dont know. Bown and Horton opened in the 1st innings and now Smith and Horton open with Brown at 3 so that means we have Shiv coming in at 5. Smith is a very handy all rounder in county cricket but they shouldnt shove him in to open because we are chasing a small target. Stick to the same as the 1st innings Moores!!

They have moved Chilton down to 5 now and put Shiv at 4

17-3 now
 

niall_mcfc

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JoeMercer'sWay said:
this could be amusing, hope Shiv stays in for your sake.

What's happened to Simon Jones? Last I heard he was meant to be coming back for the T20 final but I haven't noticed him on any scorecards since, such a shame(like MJ) that a great talent has succumbed to injury.

Hes at Hampshire, played in a few t20s for them but dont think he has featured in any 4 dayers. They play Leicestershire tomorrow in the cb40 so he might feature in that
 

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