Last night showed Mancini's weakness again

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

And but for another goalie having his game of the season AGAINST US, the players would have had another comfortable win!

If you think Cesar had his game of the season yesterday, you obviously haven't seen much of him this season.

Cesar, apart from his handling of crosses and corners, is still one of the best goalies in the world. He is by far the best player QPR has. Probably one of the best transfers of this season. If not the best.

The fact that I said that Cesar had his game of the season doesn't preclude any other aspect of his season. Last night he was superb. I haven't seen every single minute he has played but I doubt if he has been better against any other team since August!

 

[Johnsonontheleft]

Crouch handball - 2 points
Shelvey red & dodgy penalty - 2 points

Any more?

We should be 3 points behind these c*nts, not 7.

 

[coleridge]

Too much over-analysis of a match that we were unlucky to not win.

However, I was disappointed when Dzeko didn't start [say, for Tevez] and, in retrospect, Sinclair should have started for Nasri. Dead easy, this retrospective manager thing!

I think Sinclair should have started for one of Barry or Milner. Not sure we needed that much cover as QPR were sitting deep. Move Nasri central beside Milner or Barry and put Sinclair on the left, and replace Tevez with Dzeko.

You are probably right. I spent of the match winding up a QPR fan. But it was surely a mistake to rely solely on the Tevez-Aguero combo on such a night. Overall, we have the best squad and best first 11, but the failings tend to be in terms of attitude and shape, the latter seemingly influencing the former to a significant extent. We don't have to play like 'MU' but the formation needs to be more elastic as the opposition is now prepared for us...

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I’m off to do some shopping as the wife is laid up in bed ill and if I find that Sainsbury’s has run out of milk then I am blaming Mancini the Ba----d!!!

But if Sainsbury's has run out of milk, would you be blaming the store manager?

It probably ain't the store manager's job to order the milk. Managers are paid the extra for telling someone else to do it!

 

[thedogsbollocks]

Too much over-analysis of a match that we were unlucky to not win.

However, I was disappointed when Dzeko didn't start [say, for Tevez] and, in retrospect, Sinclair should have started for Nasri. Dead easy, this retrospective manager thing!

I bet you could say that for virtually every draw and defeat from last season and this season ?.That is because we are far more superior than every other team in the Premiership,our failure to kill shit teams off is too annoyingly consistent to be considered just bad luck.

The last time we drew a match that i personally thought we deserved nothing more than a draw was Dortmund at home.The rest i feel aggrieved we never won.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

The reason Man Utd don't struggle against defensive teams as much as us is that they get behind them. Their wide men and full backs stretch then and ping in balls from the byline. It doesn't matter if you have 11 men behind the ball, it is difficult to defend a cross which is coming from behind you. Richards gave us this and has been a big miss. So did Adam Johnson.

It's been there as a problem for a long time and is not going away. We have won a lot of these type of games 1-0 this season, often with late goals, but if you play 20 of these games a season then you are going to draw or lose a fair percentage of them - as has been happening all year.

In the full back positions and wide midfield positions we haven't got anything like the overlap penetration that we should have. We don't play that way. We actually looked better as a 4-4-2 with Milner wide over the last few games because it stretched the opposition more, but Milner's not ideal. He will get to the line but it isn't his main strength.

Mostly agree. Don't think teams park the bus against MU as much as they do against us; not sure if that is because they don't think it will work or they don't fear them as much. If you park the bus effectively, you should be able to deny space in behind and limit a team like MU's the opportunity to cross from the by-line. However, it was noticeable last night how Zab and Clichy held back rather than trying to get into advanced wide positions. Definitely one of those games where we were crying out for Micah. I was also crying out for Sinclair to get a run much earlier than he did.

Even with all our ongoing faults, we had 17 shots (the best average in league is 19 shots per game) and we did draw some fine saves from Cesar. So, whilst, I have long agreed that we need the option of pace and serious crossing ability on the flanks, the biggest fault remains the failure to be more clinical with our finishing, which was why Bobby wanted RvP.

Both Mancini and the players are at fault for our failings but if team's park the bus often enough, they will sometimes get away with it.

Teams definitely fear United as much as us, but they know that if you defend to deep against them, they stretch the play, pinging it out into the wide positions and waiting for the gap that opens up, often behind the back four or between the centre halves and full backs. They can do this better than us partly because they tend to play people on their "right" sides, rather than the current fad for "wrong" sides. Our wide players, even if played on their "Natural" sides, come inside when they are on the ball, narrowing play. And, of course, neither of them are natural wide players.

Whilst I agree that last night in isolation was just "one of those games", I'm frustrated that I could have seen it coming. The infamous home game was exactly the same, them lining up two banks on the edge of their box, us struggling to break through, Zab and Clichy dinking in shit little drifting crosses.

 

[MSP]

Clichy's crosses are awful, it's a holiday when he send a good cross.

I don't blame Mancini for last night, we bossed the game for most parts of it, should have be safe after first half but it didn't happen. Too bad finishing just as it is for most part of this season.

Rodwell for Tevez was one that still make me baffled though. I'm not really a football pro but wtf was that one for even if I understand he didn't really have lot of choices?

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I’m off to do some shopping as the wife is laid up in bed ill and if I find that Sainsbury’s has run out of milk then I am blaming Mancini the Ba----d!!!

But if Sainsbury's has run out of milk, would you be blaming the store manager?

It probably ain't the store manager's job to order the milk. Managers are paid the extra for telling someone else to do it!

I don't think for one minute that the store manager orders the milk, that however, doesn't mean that it isn't ultimately his responsibility for making sure that there is milk on the shelf. See the entire milk related posts for clarification on this.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

The reason Man Utd don't struggle against defensive teams as much as us is that they get behind them. Their wide men and full backs stretch then and ping in balls from the byline. It doesn't matter if you have 11 men behind the ball, it is difficult to defend a cross which is coming from behind you. Richards gave us this and has been a big miss. So did Adam Johnson.

It's been there as a problem for a long time and is not going away. We have won a lot of these type of games 1-0 this season, often with late goals, but if you play 20 of these games a season then you are going to draw or lose a fair percentage of them - as has been happening all year.

In the full back positions and wide midfield positions we haven't got anything like the overlap penetration that we should have. We don't play that way. We actually looked better as a 4-4-2 with Milner wide over the last few games because it stretched the opposition more, but Milner's not ideal. He will get to the line but it isn't his main strength.

Mostly agree. Don't think teams park the bus against MU as much as they do against us; not sure if that is because they don't think it will work or they don't fear them as much. If you park the bus effectively, you should be able to deny space in behind and limit a team like MU's the opportunity to cross from the by-line. However, it was noticeable last night how Zab and Clichy held back rather than trying to get into advanced wide positions. Definitely one of those games where we were crying out for Micah. I was also crying out for Sinclair to get a run much earlier than he did.

Even with all our ongoing faults, we had 17 shots (the best average in league is 19 shots per game) and we did draw some fine saves from Cesar. So, whilst, I have long agreed that we need the option of pace and serious crossing ability on the flanks, the biggest fault remains the failure to be more clinical with our finishing, which was why Bobby wanted RvP.

Both Mancini and the players are at fault for our failings but if team's park the bus often enough, they will sometimes get away with it.

Teams definitely fear United as much as us, but they know that if you defend to deep against them, they stretch the play, pinging it out into the wide positions and waiting for the gap that opens up, often behind the back four or between the centre halves and full backs. They can do this better than us partly because they tend to play people on their "right" sides, rather than the current fad for "wrong" sides. Our wide players, even if played on their "Natural" sides, come inside when they are on the ball, narrowing play. And, of course, neither of them are natural wide players.

Whilst I agree that last night in isolation was just "one of those games", I'm frustrated that I could have seen it coming. The infamous home game was exactly the same, them lining up two banks on the edge of their box, us struggling to break through, Zab and Clichy dinking in shit little drifting crosses.

A long standing bug bear this. It's not just that united get to the byline more than us, it's that they consistently fire in whipped, flat, fast, accurate crosses (inswingers and outswingers), from anywhere inside an imaginary 30 yard line, that take away all of a defender's natural advantages. When a little fart like Patrice Evra is able to score 5 headed goals as he has done this season, it tells you all you need to know about how good the delivery must be, and Van Persie's corners are pure evil, tantamount to shots there's so much whip and then dip on them.

United are a real percentages team in this regard, and Taggart must spend hours and hours drilling them. One man crosses it, aiming for the middle of the edge of the 6 yard box, 3 forwards attack the near post, middle and far post respectively, and depending on the margin for error, any one of them will then seek to get a nick on it, and in the event that a defender is able to head clear under pressure, there's always a midfielder following up on the edge of the 'D' looking to hit low (never high) rebound shots into the corner of the goal. Down the years, he has consistently stuffed his team with wingers able to put the ball on a sixpence. Giggs, Beckham, Ronaldo, Ninny, Young, Valencia, heck even Gary Neville. What I saw from Clichy, Nasri, Silva, Milner and even Zab last night was utterly embarrassing in its ineptitude. Floaty, inaccurate, hanging, shite that the centre halves could have finished their dinner before clearing. We don't have to play like united, but to not have this basic skill as a secondary option is costing us dear, particularly on our travels, and also crucially, in Europe. In the last 14 months, West Brom, Sunderland (twice), Everton, Swansea (after a bright opening spell), Stoke, West Ham, Reading (at home) and QPR have all parked the bus against us, and we scored 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1 and 0. Like a bloody binary code. Needs sorting

 

[dancity19]

Mostly agree. Don't think teams park the bus against MU as much as they do against us; not sure if that is because they don't think it will work or they don't fear them as much. If you park the bus effectively, you should be able to deny space in behind and limit a team like MU's the opportunity to cross from the by-line. However, it was noticeable last night how Zab and Clichy held back rather than trying to get into advanced wide positions. Definitely one of those games where we were crying out for Micah. I was also crying out for Sinclair to get a run much earlier than he did.

Even with all our ongoing faults, we had 17 shots (the best average in league is 19 shots per game) and we did draw some fine saves from Cesar. So, whilst, I have long agreed that we need the option of pace and serious crossing ability on the flanks, the biggest fault remains the failure to be more clinical with our finishing, which was why Bobby wanted RvP.

Both Mancini and the players are at fault for our failings but if team's park the bus often enough, they will sometimes get away with it.

Teams definitely fear United as much as us, but they know that if you defend to deep against them, they stretch the play, pinging it out into the wide positions and waiting for the gap that opens up, often behind the back four or between the centre halves and full backs. They can do this better than us partly because they tend to play people on their "right" sides, rather than the current fad for "wrong" sides. Our wide players, even if played on their "Natural" sides, come inside when they are on the ball, narrowing play. And, of course, neither of them are natural wide players.

Whilst I agree that last night in isolation was just "one of those games", I'm frustrated that I could have seen it coming. The infamous home game was exactly the same, them lining up two banks on the edge of their box, us struggling to break through, Zab and Clichy dinking in shit little drifting crosses.

A long standing bug bear this. It's not just that united get to the byline more than us, it's that they consistently fire in whipped, flat, fast, accurate crosses (inswingers and outswingers), from anywhere inside an imaginary 30 yard line, that take away all of a defender's natural advantages. When a little fart like Patrice Evra is able to score 5 headed goals as he has done this season, it tells you all you need to know about how good the delivery must be, and Van Persie's corners are pure evil, tantamount to shots there's so much whip and then dip on them.

United are a real percentages team in this regard, and Taggart must spend hours and hours drilling them. One crosses, aiming for the middle of the edge of the 6 yard box, 3 forwards attack the near post, middle and far post respectively, and depending on the margin for error, anyone will seek to get a nick on it. Down the years, he has consistently stuffed his team with wingers able to put the ball on a sixpence. Giggs, Beckham, Ronaldo, Ninny, Young, Valencia, heck even Gary Neville. What I saw from Clichy, Nasri, Silva, Milner and even Zab last night was utterly embarrassing in its ineptitude. Floaty, inaccurate, hanging, shite that the centre halves could have finished their dinner before clearing. We don't have to play like united, but to not have this basic skill as a secondary option is costing us dear, particularly on our travels, and also crucially, in Europe. In the last 14 months, West Brom, Sunderland (twice), Everton, Swansea (after a bright opening spell), Stoke, West Ham, Reading (at home) and QPR have all parked the bus against us, and we scored 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1 and 0. Like a bloody binary code. Needs sorting

People only need to read what is highlighted in blue. It's an awful stat.

It's been clear to so many of us, for so long that we need a plan B. Now I am not saying I can do Mancini's job better than him; he will have spotted that trend too, but it is HIS JOB to do something about it. He hasn't.

Unexpected results can obviously happen, that's football. But that trend, in a way, shows that last nights result was almost predictable. 2 points dropped, a poor performance, but predictable that we would find it difficult to beat them? We should have beaten them, of course we should, but is anyone really surprised that we didn't break them down.

Should it be predictable that the Champions, a team chasing the title, should draw 0-0 to the team bottom in the league- I'm not sure.