Leeds United 2018/19 thread

[inchy14]

All I'm seeing is 2 idiotic sides to this spying thing

1 side think Leeds should be docked points even tho no rule has been broken (crazy that there is no rule against it)
The other is saying it's absolutely nothing, even openly celebrating it.

It's clearly wrong and basically cheating.
Seems Bielsa's irrelevant stunt has fooled quite a few. The reality is that data isn't as important if you think the opposition might prepare differently against you. I feel like a prat for pointing out the obvious but doubts and anxiety in a manager's mind can lead to different decisions which in turn can lead to different results.

A big part of Pep's success is coming up with little tweaks depending on the opposition, Under Pellegrini we "set traps", as Kompany put it, for Chelsea, Klopp has had success from designating triggers for the press, even setting intervals before a game for when his team is going to go hell for leather, Mourinho has told players to travel separately from the team so as to surprise the opposition, all managers lie about when players are going to be fit to play etc. Again, all obvious stuff.

If spying is no big deal let's have all clubs be able to station scouts inside each other's club, let them sit in in the dressing room, team meetings etc.

They’ve done fuck all wrong imo, certainly not cheating, managers should use every available resource to gain an advantage, if he’s able to watch the opponents train then fair play for doing it. He’s watched the opposing teams more than probably any other side in the division to ensure maximum preparation, Not sure how you reckon having data on the opponents is irrelevant. I reckon a fair few chairman today were asking their managers and coaches why they don’t go into as much detail as Leeds obviously have been doing.
How do you think Pep comes up with little tweaks? Waits till half time before sussing the opposition out? Or having meticulously planned for them by analysing previous games?
As for your last paragraph, it’s all bollocks. Teams don’t want training sessions watched do it behind closed doors, simple.

 

[lancs blue]

No where as big as Leeds on any level. Nowhere.

Huddersfield have won the same number of League titles as dirty Leeds - three.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

I wouldn't be bothered if they get promoted, be nice to give them a good thrashing.

 

[citytilllidie]

In this day and age, you would think there would be scouts watching and compiling dossiers of set piece plays, team formations, tactics etc. for every opposition.

Pep, Klopp, Jose etc. will have the same and will use that information for their own tactical meetings.

KDB after, the journalist asked if he knew the defensive wall would jump after shooting under it, "Yes, we get all the details ".

If that info comes from a scout watching a game, a video, or a scout with a pair of binoculars, it doesn't matter a jot.

It's still 11 v 11 trying to score or stop a goal.

 

[Luddite_Blue]

Having been working away since before Christmas I get back to this. Ah my dysfunctional club.

But this is a run down of the press conference.

"I with the goal of gaining a sports advantage and damaging the fair play. I already said I was responsible for this situation. The person who did it followed my orders and I am the only responsible one. My behaviour has been debated and many people have made an opinion. Many have condemned the act of behaviour. They've said it was immoral and violated the fair play and cheating. The club thought it was obliged public excuses to Derby County. I was publicly told that my behaviour was not respecting the principles and integrity that are the basis of the club."

"Many managers and ex-footballers said my behaviour was not respectful. The league after a complaint my by Derby County decided to open an investigation over my behaviour so they will evaluate if I behaved bad. One point I would like to talk about is that I am going to make it easy for the investigation of the league. I will give them what they need. I assume the fact that my behaviour is observed. I observed all the rivals and we watched all the training sessions of the opponents before we played against them. My goal is to make the investigation easier."

"I don't want to compare my behaviour with the past. I've heard that there are other behaviours that effect the fair play but I absolutely do not want to defend myself by attacking others. I don't want to point to any other situation that is not linked to my responsibility. Regarding what I have done, what I have done is not illegal. It's not specified and it's not restrained. We can discuss about it. It's not seen as a good thing but it is not a violation of the law. I know that not everything is legal is right to do. Because you have many things that are legal but they're not right. All the wrong things that you do are not done with bad intentions."

"I am going to try and explain that I didn't have bad intentions or get a sporting advantage. I did it because it was not illegal or violating a specific law.

Of course I have a point of view but it does not mean mine is right. As Lampard said he doesn't believe I didn't have bad intentions. He believes that I violated the fair play spirit. So I have to adapt to the rules that are linked to the habits of English football. Nobody ignores that all professional members of football want to work in British football. We have some conclusions. We have some analysis that the Championship is the sixth biggest competition in the world."

"We have to respect the procedures. I regret the point that I am going to make now because I don't like to talk about me. In my job I am overexposed and I don't like being in the media too much but I think it is important to make this explanation. When you look at the opponent you are looking for specific information. You want to know the starting XI and the strategic set-up and their set-pieces. Those are three key things head coaches analyse. When you watch a training session from an opponent you get this information a day before a game. Obviously it's not information that can allow you to build a project to neutralise the opponent during a game.

I'm not trying to justify my behaviour whatsoever. We cannot justify it as Lampard said. He does not accept the explanation I gave. "

"All the information I need to clarify the game against an opponent I gather it without having the necessity without having to watch the training session of the opponent. So why did I do it? It's just because I thought I wasn't violating a normal thing. As I reach my conclusion. I gather information that I can obtain in another manner. I would like to explain how the brain of a head coach works.

Apart from the players in the staff you have around 20 people. These 20 people create a volume of information. It's absolutely not necessary. It doesn't define the path of the competition. So why do we do that? Because we feel guilty if we don't work enough. It allows us to not have anxiety. In a few words I am going to tell you something that is not easy to explain. How we analyse each opponent without having to go and watch the training session."

"360 hours has gone into this..."

He is showing Derby County's results from this season now. He's got up from his chair and is explaining how colours on the fixture list show positive or negative cycles.

"Of each opponent we watched all the games of 2018/19 - we watched the 51 games of Derby County. The analysis of each game takes four hours of work - why did we do that? Because we think it is professional behaviour."

He asked someone in the room to pick a game... 19 is chosen. Bielsa is now breaking down the tactical breakdown of Chelsea vs Derby - he is showing analysis of the shape of the starting 11 for Derby and how it changed throughout the fixture.

Manchester United fixture chosen this time... more breakdown of how many chances Derby had to score and which team dominated the fixture at different points. He's going into great detail about how Leeds approach each fixture.

"I might not be able to speak English but I can speak about the 24 teams of the Championship." - Manchester United vs Derby County being shown on the screen. Bielsa going into detail at how they analyse the positions of each player during games and how it compares to previous fixtures.

Bielsa now showing a spreadsheet. It has full stats of each player from Derby County and whether they have missed any games, goals scored etc.

"I feel ashamed to have to have shown you all this."

He has a table on the screen which dissects how many games and how often Derby change systems throughout the season

"They've played 4-3-3 49.9% of the season... we use this to understand the system and why and when they change the system during a game."

He's now explaining what structures Derby County have faced and what is the most difficult formation for them to face. He does this for every team he says.

"If you ask me what is the most difficult formation for them to face I don't have that information in my head but this document gives me the answer. How do we gather all of this information? We analyse 51 games."

"Why have I done this? I want to show to everyone how we analyse teams."

Bielsa asks for another number... 27 is mentioned this time. It's Bristol City vs Derby. He's now breaking down the chances for both teams and how they dominated each part of the game.

Bielsa now has two videos on the screen... both of a Harry Wilson corner from two separate games.

"When he puts his two hands up we can see what they do... we have evidence to show this."

He's showing all of the attacking play from Derby vs Bristol City.

"There is nearly 40 minutes of it... when you see that you see what is the path for the opponent to attack. If you do the same thing about chances conceded by Derby you can see the defensive weaknesses that they have."

Bielsa says his staff cut down this video into eight minutes for players to look at and analyse.

"The idea is to give the players a look at the opponent in a short space of time."

"We know that over 90 minutes Derby County can use four systems due to all of this analysis. We can see all the players and where they played."

He's showing another spreadsheet... this time with where each player of Derby can play on the pitch listed in a formation.

"We have five of these for all the systems that Derby County play."

He's now showing documents of information gather about each individual of Derby's squad. How many minutes they players at what position... the detail is ridiculous.

Bielsa now picking out Alioski as an example. He's looking at players from Derby that could go up against him at left-back. Analysing each player and what the information tells Leeds about how they could attack down that side.

One journalist has to step outside to meet a deadline... he's accommodating.

There's more to his... he has a final breakdown put into a powerpoint on each individual player from the Derby County squad that he can then look at after all of the information he has explained

"I do not need to go to a training session to find out an opponent. Why do I go? Because it is not against the rules and I didn't know it would cause such an issue. It is partly down to my anxiety."

"When I was a coach of Athletic Bilboa we played Barcelona in a final we lost 3-0. I gave all this information I have shown you on Barcelona to Pep Guardiola. He said to be you know more about Barcelona that me! I do this analysis to ease my anxiety."

He has them all laid out on a shelf underneath his presentation. There must be over 50 folders in place.

"What I feel is I have not done anything unlawful or forbidden."

He's got his goalkeeping coach explaining what the videos are showing... they are displaying Derby's attacking play and who goes where from each set-pieces.

They look at every set-piece and number them up to see how they attack... "does this help? No. Because we kept conceding!"

Finally Bielsa says they make a short video on the opposition goalkeeper (Scott Carson) how they can press or where his weaknesses are.

He's now showing his analyse for Stoke... he's showing 26 games of Luton because of new manager Nathan Jones. Says they are looking at all of what he has shown from his previous set-ups etc.

"This is all and I thank you for your patience..."

Bielsa has now left the building.

When Sven was doing his homework, he wasn't using the time to come up with all the formations Derby County had used during the season!

 

[jimharri]

When Sven was doing his homework, he wasn't using the time to come up with all the formations Derby County had used during the season!

Atomic Kitten, eh?

 

[Mancityus]

All I'm seeing is 2 idiotic sides to this spying thing

1 side think Leeds should be docked points even tho no rule has been broken (crazy that there is no rule against it)

What rule could be made against an individual on public property looking over a fence ?

 

[Semi-hopeless]

I personally have no problem with you lot. You're not scum and that's good enough for me.

 

[Silva_Spell]

They’ve done fuck all wrong imo, certainly not cheating, managers should use every available resource to gain an advantage, if he’s able to watch the opponents train then fair play for doing it. He’s watched the opposing teams more than probably any other side in the division to ensure maximum preparation, Not sure how you reckon having data on the opponents is irrelevant. I reckon a fair few chairman today were asking their managers and coaches why they don’t go into as much detail as Leeds obviously have been doing.
How do you think Pep comes up with little tweaks? Waits till half time before sussing the opposition out? Or having meticulously planned for them by analysing previous games?
As for your last paragraph, it’s all bollocks. Teams don’t want training sessions watched do it behind closed doors, simple.

Why reply to a post you didn't read?

 

[Silva_Spell]

What rule could be made against an individual on public property looking over a fence ?

Not sure what public property has to do with anything