Lescott [Merged]

[twinkletoes]

One top four finish, in a very strange season, does not mean you will finish top six season after season, with the odd top four finish. It means you had a lucky season, but realistically, top six is your best bet. Add to that the fact that Spurs, Sunderland, and Villa will all be investing to a much greater extent than yourselves...the league is getting tougher, and clubs are progressing, whereas Everton are standing still.



That's just nonsensical. You are a world away from Arsenal, who by the way had a raft of long term injuries last season...you massively overachieved, whilst clubs like ourselves and Spurs massively underachieved. The ifs and buts of last season are for the most part irrelevant when you consider where you finished.



Of course the model works if you want to stay behind the big four, and compete with the best of the rest. But frankly, that's not what City are looking at doing, so I don't quite see what relevance that has. I've pointed out several times why i see Everton as going backwards next season. Just an opinion, but one based on the key factor that clubs around you will strengthen whilst you were struggle to do so...

As for Moyes seeing half the money. Well, again, if you understand how clubs like yourselves, and us a few years back, work, then you will accept that it's unlikely Moyes will see all the money from any sale of Lescott.

On a side note. I see you feel quite smug about charging over the odds for a player like Lescott. Well, clubs have been doing it in the premiership for years. You pay a premium for buying in the premiership. But it effects the market as a whole, not just the buying club. You may get 25 million for Lescott, but then every club in Europe will know you got that, and will charge you for their players accordingly...

City aren't looking to do that because they are in a highly privaleged position of having a multi multi billionaire owner, but just because thats how you now operate doesn't mean there aren't other ways for a club to operate. Infact its been shown many times that slow steady building of a young team can be far more sucessful then the boom and bust scenario of buying top players on top wages without any love for the club or being able to gel as a team.

You don't know we wont strenghten, your basing your arguments on your own opinion rather then any factual basis. we wont be buying the likes of Eto'o or Aguero thats for sure, in fact we've never been in for these types of players and still year in year out "over achieved" as you seem to think we have.

I disagree with Moyes not seeing all the money. I think he'd get it all or he wouldn't entertain selling him. Moyes isn't stupid. Neither of us can guarantee this either way so its a mute point as far as i'm concerned.

I wouldn't be suprised if Moyes brought in the players he wanted before any Lescott deal was sealed to avoid the problem of over inflated transfer fee's. I'm not being smug btw when saying we'd take you to the cleaners. i'm just trying to point out that any deal will be more beneficial to us then you, else there just be no point in doing it.

I dont think we'll go backwards next season either. your basing your arguments on teams spending large amounts of money, rather then spending wisely. Your argument fails completely if you took the time to look back over the last few seasons and seen where we finished despite other teams spending considerably more. Based on your argument Spurs, Villa, City and probably a few others should have finished above us... instead we didnt go backwards, we went forwards and added a cup final appearance to our 5th place finish.

It seems some City fans just think money is everything now they have lots and fail to see that football is a much more intricate game then just whoever spends the most finishes the highest.

If you are doing so well why is Kenwright desperate to sell the club? Because he knows that without a big investment the club can't go any further.

 

[ToffeeAndy]

It seems some City fans just think money is everything now they have lots and fail to see that football is a much more intricate game then just whoever spends the most finishes the highest.

A very very weak argument my friend. I have said over and over that I think Moyes has done a very good job at Everton, however you've hit a glass ceiling in terms of your progression. From here on out, it's either a steady decline, or status quo.

With money comes jealousy, which is exactly why so many of your lot are on this board giving it the big "I am". Nobody, and i mean, not a single person, on this thread has said "money is everything". However it is only the blind optimism, and naivety, of Everton fans like yourself, who seem to think that even whilst not having a pot to piss in when it comes to transfers, you can somehow continue to compete at the top end of the premiership. Dream on...

BTW, this amazing consistency which Everton have shown under Moyes manifests itself in league positions under him:

15th, 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th.

Even the most sanguine of football supporters would laugh at the assertion that Everton haven't hit a glass ceiling and the only way now is down without significant investment. Shit, even Kenwright has been alluding to it for the last two years...

Hold on a moment... my arguments are weak? Can I just quote you for a second...

Didnt you say that we will "go backwards" this season... now your saying "From here on out, it's either a steady decline, or status quo". You need to be a bit more consistent with your points if you are to be taken seriously.

Anyway I've at no point said we'd break the top 4 year after year without investment. However I do believe we can consistently finish higher then Spurs and the like due to Moyes, the foundations he's built here, and the young players we have in our team. Make no mistake that even if we didn't buy anyone our team would improve as these players reached their peak.

I have no jealousy for City and their Billions. Fair play to you's, I dont think there's one single Everton Fan who could hand on heart say he woulnd't literally cream in his pants if Tevez had signed for Everton. I think a lot of City fans feel they have a right to be seen as something they aren't as a result of having all this money though. It seems a lot of you think you've arrived before you have. Fair play if you finish in the top 4 with some silverware at the end of the season, big yourselves up then, but respect is earnt, your not entitled to it now as a lot of your fans seem to think. There's an arrogance about some City fans that not yet justified. No doubt you have the potential to get there... your just not there yet.

I dont think any of our fans believe we can compete at the "top of the table" without money. yes money buys you thos extra special players that can win you league titles. However to say we can't compete in the top 6 without billions is folly. We've done it and will continue to do so regardless of what "the experts" say. they've said it for years and we've shown that its bollocks.

As for the league positions you listed.... 5th, 5th & 6th... these are the positions after Moyes finally cleared the deadwood from Walter Smiths reign. Under Moyes' vision and with the players he's chosen for the club i'd expect a similar run to continue over the next few seasons too.

kenwright talks shit... I really wouldn't listen to a word he says... Everton fans dont. Its his club and he doesn't want anyone to buy it contrary to what he says.

 

[Anonymous]

Hold on a moment... my arguments are weak? Can I just quote you for a second...

Didnt you say that we will "go backwards" this season... now your saying "From here on out, it's either a steady decline, or status quo". You need to be a bit more consistent with your points if you are to be taken seriously.

LOL. Okay, i'll go back to what I said originally, IMO, you'll go backwards...

Anyway I've at no point said we'd break the top 4 year after year without investment. However I do believe we can consistently finish higher then Spurs and the like due to Moyes, the foundations he's built here, and the young players we have in our team. Make no mistake that even if we didn't buy anyone our team would improve as these players reached their peak.

I disagree. But the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I hope you stick around throughout the season as things unfold. Spurs will outperform you, as will City and Villa. The foundations which Rednapp and O'Neill are laying are just as sound as the ones Moyes laid, and they're doing it with far more resources.

I have no jealousy for City and their Billions. Fair play to you's, I dont think there's one single Everton Fan who could hand on heart say he woulnd't literally cream in his pants if Tevez had signed for Everton. I think a lot of City fans feel they have a right to be seen as something they aren't as a result of having all this money though. It seems a lot of you think you've arrived before you have. Fair play if you finish in the top 4 with some silverware at the end of the season, big yourselves up then, but respect is earnt, your not entitled to it now as a lot of your fans seem to think. There's an arrogance about some City fans that not yet justified. No doubt you have the potential to get there... your just not there yet.

I dont think any of our fans believe we can compete at the "top of the table" without money. yes money buys you thos extra special players that can win you league titles. However to say we can't compete in the top 6 without billions is folly. We've done it and will continue to do so regardless of what "the experts" say. they've said it for years and we've shown that its bollocks.

Again with the snide little "arrogance" digs. Let me clue you in. If you want to come on a City forum at a time like this, then I'm sure you're going to find supporters incredibly optimistic. We get arrogant when people like yourselves come on here and start spouting about how you'll take us to the cleaners for a player. Fine, take us to the cleaners. We've got fucking loads of money so can afford it...

I don't think there's any point in going much further. You think Moyes is great and your club's in great shape. I think you're walking a fine line and could implode at any moment.

 

[TonyM]

I agree mostly with ToffeeAndy. Everton IMO are the best run team in the league. They've been consistently doing very well with a lot less spent than the likes of Villa, Spurs and ourselves. In fact I think they are better run than Arsenal (but arsenal have the benefit of "stature" and Wenger). They should continue to do exactly what they are doing - what more can they do? And they'll continue to make the top 6 (even push for 4th ocassionally).

But... I do think we'll jump beyond them. If not this coming season then next.

My hope is that once we smash into the top 4 clubs like Spurs, Villa and Everton will take advantage and followup behind us. I want all of the current top 4 to be midtable or worse within the next 5 years. Fairy tale I know but ohhh such a beautiful dream!

 

[Dubai Blue]

I see this thread is still just going round and round in circles.

Are none of you dizzy yet?

 

[CITYROBBO]

Spursmad said 100% done yesterday that will do for me!

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Fuck it, while I'm bored in work here's my 2 pence worth:

Everton are a quality club. They've been run very well over the years and Moyes has done the business for them without spending a great deal. They've got a solid, functional team with no ego's but good spirit who can give most teams a good game. Getting to the FA cup final was a good achievement but they fell short to Chelsea and IMO they will always find themselves falling short (just like any other club) until they get some major spending power behind them. In days gone by Everton would probably have won something or at least gone further more recently had the top 4 not had such a stanglehold on the domestic comps.

My personal opinion is that they have peaked with the FA cup final and unless they get more money to spend then where they are now is as far as they will go.

Kudos for knocking the rags out of the FA cup and I'll always rememebr cheering that Rideout header back in 1995 (IIRC) when I was sat watching as a kid in a rag mates living room.

Stadium's pretty crap now though

 

[ToffeeAndy]

I agree mostly with ToffeeAndy. Everton IMO are the best run team in the league. They've been consistently doing very well with a lot less spent than the likes of Villa, Spurs and ourselves. In fact I think they are better run than Arsenal (but arsenal have the benefit of "stature" and Wenger). They should continue to do exactly what they are doing - what more can they do? And they'll continue to make the top 6 (even push for 4th ocassionally).

But... I do think we'll jump beyond them. If not this coming season then next.

My hope is that once we smash into the top 4 clubs like Spurs, Villa and Everton will take advantage and followup behind us. I want all of the current top 4 to be midtable or worse within the next 5 years. Fairy tale I know but ohhh such a beautiful dream!

Thank you! A much more balanced argument. I agree with all of your points, including that City will pass us as some point.

Although actually maybe not that were better run the Arsenal, just maybe more the expectations of us by the media are less so we can get away with spending less. i think Arsenal are still expected to challenge for the title but they aren't able to now.

However a very good post!

 

[twinkletoes]

I agree mostly with ToffeeAndy. Everton IMO are the best run team in the league. They've been consistently doing very well with a lot less spent than the likes of Villa, Spurs and ourselves. In fact I think they are better run than Arsenal (but arsenal have the benefit of "stature" and Wenger). They should continue to do exactly what they are doing - what more can they do? And they'll continue to make the top 6 (even push for 4th ocassionally).

But... I do think we'll jump beyond them. If not this coming season then next.

My hope is that once we smash into the top 4 clubs like Spurs, Villa and Everton will take advantage and followup behind us. I want all of the current top 4 to be midtable or worse within the next 5 years. Fairy tale I know but ohhh such a beautiful dream!

Thank you! A much more balanced argument. I agree with all of your points, including that City will pass us as some point.

Although actually maybe not that were better run the Arsenal, just maybe more the expectations of us by the media are less so we can get away with spending less. i think Arsenal are still expected to challenge for the title but they aren't able to now.

However a very good post!

Would you consider making a bid for Jonathan Greening?

 

[Anonymous]

I see this thread is still just going round and round in circles.

Are none of you dizzy yet?

I'm so dizzy my head is spinning...

Like a whirlpool it never ends...