Lessons from Mourinho and Leicester

Blue Mooner

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25 Jun 2005
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3,139
I've been meaning to post on this for a number of months and Christmas has afforded me some time to finally get round to sharing my thoughts. I'm not sure I will articulate this well enough for fans to understand my perspective but I will give it a go.

Over the years and as I've become older and perhaps wiser, I've become ever more frustrated about the amount of hours fans spend on this forum bemoaning the qualities of various managers we've had over the years, particularly those over Hughes, Mancini and more recently Pellegrini.

To be honest, in my view, this idea that the manager is the ultimate key to success or otherwise of ours or any other club is to over estimate and exaggerate the amount of influence a manager can have. To my mind, of far more importance, and far, far more critical to a teams success is that of the players you have at your disposal and that secret sauce of 'confidence'. Ultimately without the playing personnel and those players playing with confidence then no amount of formations, tactics, rip roaring speeches will overcome this.

Whilst clearly you need a good and well educated football person running your club (I'm not for a minute suggesting that Keith Hill at Rochdale would do as a good a job as a Mourinho, Ancelloti et al), However, there are 'levels' of manager and there comes a point where the differences between the top, top managers is so negligible that to change and expect vast changes in team performance as a result of a different philosophy or approach is futile, ultimately what you end up with broadly are the same results. This is why I applaud Arsenal for sticking with their manager and a 'long term' plan.

So in my opinion the main ingredients to any teams success in this order are: Confidence, Players, Injuries and laterly the Manager (assuming you already have a manager who has proven his success previously) without the first two ingredients you can forget who the manager is. I might also argue that referees can make themselves more important than the manager (note the game changing offside at Spurs and the 3 possible penalties not awarded against Arsenal)

As Lloyd Grossman said on Through the Keyhole, let's look at the evidence:

Chelsea under Mourinho, no one can argue that Mourinho is not a top draw manager, proven cup winner at numerous clubs and yet this season he has presided over a team that has looked more like relegation candidates, that despite the fact that no one can question his tactical credentials due to the numerous successes at other clubs. With that in mind how do you explain the dramatic fall from grace? I would strongly suggest it comes down to confidence and team spirit.

Liverpool under Klopp
Celebrated as the second coming of Shankly and after an initial boost, slight change in philosophy and approach results have basically come back to the same level as those under Brendan Rodgers

Leicester this season. Relegation candidates this time last year, however their results at the end of last season under Nigel Pearson towards the end of the season were W7 D1 L1 with the addition of some new players in the summer to supplement their squad notably Okazaki, Kante, Huth, Inler - now they are challenging for the title and this with a manager who was deemed not good enough for Chelsea and had a pretty turgid time as manager of Greece and more recently Monaco and Inter but likewise has had proven success. Why the change in fortunes ? Players and that magic formula of confidence...

Yes of course the manager can help instil belief in the players but his voice may well be drowned out by the plethora of pundits, journalists and keyboard warriers on twitter ready to slag a particular player at a moments notice. As a fan of any club why would you undermine your own wants and desires for your team by slagging your own ?

So my advice if you want your team to be successful, instead of endlessly discussing the merits of your manager, at that level they are all good and proven at one time or another,if you have a proven manager stick with him, and support him, of course it's worth discussing tactics but not in the context of whether your manager should be fired or not. If there is any merit in debate about the teams fortunes more of a focus should be on the players that the club has available (that's probably more likely where the problem is) and if those players have been proven successful at other clubs focus on building up the qualities and confidence of those players we have so that we can be sure we get the best from them. I was always told as a young player and have stood by this, that a good player doesn't go bad overnight. Have faith and belief and support your team that is the key ingredient to success. Tactics, formation and set up only play a part and I would argue a small part.

Following this simple approach will help ensure that when the manager sets up his tactics that he won't be let down by a cr*p stray pass from a player low on confidence.....
 
Last edited:
I've been meaning to post on this for a number of months and Christmas has afforded me some time to finally get round to sharing my thoughts. I'm not sure I will articulate this well enough for fans to understand my perspective but I will give it a go.

Over the years and as I've become older and perhaps wiser, I've become ever more frustrated about the amount of hours fans spend on this forum bemoaning the qualities of various managers we've had over the years, particularly those over Hughes, Mancini and more recently Pellegrini.

To be honest, in my view, this idea that the manager is the ultimate key to success or otherwise of ours or any other club is to over estimate and exaggerate the amount of influence a manager can have. To my mind, of far more importance, and far, far more critical to a teams success is that of the players you have at your disposal and that secret sauce of 'confidence'. Ultimately without the playing personnel and those players playing with confidence then no amount of formations, tactics, rip roaring speeches will overcome this.

Whilst clearly you need a good and well educated football person running your club (I'm not for a minute suggesting that Keith Hill at Rochdale would do as a good a job as a Mourinho, Ancelloti et al), However, there are 'levels' of manager and there comes a point where the differences between the top, top managers is so negligible that to change and expect vast changes in team performance as a result of a different philosophy or approach is futile, ultimately what you end up with broadly are the same results. This is why I applaud Arsenal for sticking with their manager and a 'long term' plan.

So in my opinion the main ingredients to any teams success in this order are: Confidence, Players, Injuries and laterly the Manager (assuming you already have a manager who has proven his success previously) without the first two ingredients you can forget who the manager is. I might also argue that referees can make themselves more important than the manager (note the game changing offside at Spurs and the 3 possible penalties not awarded against Arsenal)

As Lloyd Grossman said on Through the Keyhole, let's look at the evidence:

Chelsea under Mourinho, no one can argue that Mourinho is not a top draw manager, proven cup winner at numerous clubs and yet this season he has presided over a team that has looked more like relegation candidates, that despite the fact that no one can question his tactical credentials due to the numerous successes at other clubs. With that in mind how do you explain the dramatic fall from grace? I would strongly suggest it comes down to confidence and team spirit.

Liverpool under Klopp
Celebrated as the second coming of Shankly and after an initial boost, slight change in philosophy and approach results have basically come back to the same level as those under Brendan Rodgers

Leicester this season. Relegation candidates this time last year, however their results at the end of last season under Nigel Pearson towards the end of the season were W7 D1 L1 with the addition of some new players in the summer to supplement their squad notably Okazaki, Kante, Huth, Inler - now they are challenging for the title and this with a manager who was deemed not good enough for Chelsea and had a pretty turgid time as manager of Greece and more recently Monaco and Inter but likewise has had proven success. Why the change in fortunes ? Players and that magic formula of confidence...

Yes of course the manager can help instil belief in the players but his voice may well be drowned out by the plethora of pundits, journalists and keyboard warriers on twitter ready to slag a particular player at a moments notice. As a fan of any club why would you undermine your own wants and desires for your team by slagging your own ?

So my advice if you want your team to be successful, instead of endlessly discussing the merits of your manager, at that level they are all good and proven at one time or another,if you have a proven manager stick with him, and support him, of course it's worth discussing tactics but not in the context of whether your manager should be fired or not. If there is any merit in debate about the teams fortunes more of a focus should be on the players that the club has available (that's probably more likely where the problem is) and if those players have been proven successful at other clubs focus on building up the qualities and confidence of those players we have so that we can be sure we get the best from them. I was always told as a young player and have stood by this, that a good player doesn't go bad overnight. Have faith and belief and support your team that is the key ingredient to success. Tactics, formation and set up only play a part and I would argue a small part.

Following this simple approach will help ensure that when the manager sets up his tactics that he won't be let down by a cr*p stray pass from a player low on confidence.....

Interesting read, but I dont agree with your assessment of Chelsea and Liverpool. Chelsea have fallen from grace due to Mourinho's devisiveness and constant belittling of players in public. Similar to Mancini's demise although a whole scale worse. Problem with Liverpool is Klopp demands an ultra-high intensity and precise pressing game which the players are not good enough to pull off. Sure they can for a few games, but as I predicted after the Southampton thrashing, teams would learn to combat them by sitting back and letting Liverpool have the ball. So far, Klopp hasn't shown he has any Plan B.

So I agree with the futility of perpetual naval gazing over your manager, but you also need to understand fundamentally what you are getting. With Mourinho, he can raise a team for a short period of time. With Klopp you better have players willing and able to overdose on 5-hour Energy. Pellegrini will be steady and avuncular but not the guy to give the players a bollocking if they are slacking off. So as an owner, stick with your manager sure, but study his merits and style beforehand and ensure it fits the goals you have for your club.
 
Interesting post. I think rather than thinking about the manager you look at leadership & its qualities (trust me I bore students to death about it on a regular basis)

Adding leadership to the equations and analysing your examples I would suggest-

Chelsea - Mourinho lost his dressing room somewhere in and around the Eva Carneiro episode - this undermined his leadership abilities as he was so clearly out of line, subsequently those messages he passed onto his players are filtered through a noise of his own making whereby his ideas and messages are potentially challenged as he is no longer infallible

Liverpool under Klopp - after the fraud Brenda left, Klopp has come into a dressing room which has questionable quality, his initial changes made some effect but at the end of the day he can't polish a turd. Give him a couple of transfer windows and I think things will be different

Leicester - Confidence is playing a part here, aligned with new signings that have yet to be found out by the opposition, add to that the undoubted charismatic leadership of Ranieri - however they are playing above their level at present and more than likely be relying on Ranieri more and more as they play the 2nd round of games against now a more savvy opponent.

You can then look at Pelligrini - here clearly his leadership is now critically undermined by the unconfirmed fact that he is a goner at the end of the season - likewise Van Lunatic at the swamp, his leadership has been challenged frequently and undermined most likely by the family guy and so yet again you get the message and instructions to players dissipated through the noise created by the lack of trust in he knows what he is talking about.

Sorry to waffle on and hopefully I don't sound too pretentious or academic !!!
 
I'm sorry but I disagree. I get what you're saying that people tend to overestimate the manager effect, but I think you're doing the opposite & underestimating their importance.

You use Chelsea & Mourinho as an example yet you could say the opposite, last year was their team that good? Not really, but he set them up to not lose in the big matches - his tactics gained tough points & made rivals drop points against him. This year it wasn't his fault, he set them up well, the players just didn't perform for him - so yes that shows the importance of players, and last season shows the important of the manager.

You'd struggle to find many football people, or City fans with any semi-decent knowledge of the game, who think that we're setting our teams up in the correct manner for most matches. Yes I agree that form, and confidence & the ability of the players is important - but you still need to set them up right. Nearly all our problems are stemming from the same mistakes being made by the same players over & over again, yet our manager won't adapt or change for these problems, I struggle to see how you dismiss that as unimportant? People can blame Yaya for being lazy, but we know that he will be lazy, which then makes it the managers decision to either drop him (solves to lazy problem) or protect him by adapting for his laziness to stop it being a problem - by not doing so for me the blame then shifts towards the manager, if you know something is a problem you should change it rather than just ignoring it & letting the player take blame.

You say have faith in the team, I think you'll find that most fans do indeed have faith in the team, and are in fact using that faith as the only thing that makes us believe we're still in with a chance of the title. Personally I think this has been our biggest problem though, tactically we're not on the same level as the top teams, so we just rely on having better players & rely on them carrying us to victory - which in the PL has worked sure, we have the best team hence we have won the league a couple of times & won a couple of domestic trophies, but we're nowhere near the level of the really top tier teams & to take that step for me you need a top tier manager.

The assumption seems to be we're getting a new manager next season & that it is likely a top manager. It will certainly be interesting to see if this has little to no impact as I can only assume you expect from your post, or if we concede far less goals next season.
 
Interesting post. I think rather than thinking about the manager you look at leadership & its qualities (trust me I bore students to death about it on a regular basis)

Adding leadership to the equations and analysing your examples I would suggest-

Chelsea - Mourinho lost his dressing room somewhere in and around the Eva Carneiro episode - this undermined his leadership abilities as he was so clearly out of line, subsequently those messages he passed onto his players are filtered through a noise of his own making whereby his ideas and messages are potentially challenged as he is no longer infallible

Liverpool under Klopp - after the fraud Brenda left, Klopp has come into a dressing room which has questionable quality, his initial changes made some effect but at the end of the day he can't polish a turd. Give him a couple of transfer windows and I think things will be different

Leicester - Confidence is playing a part here, aligned with new signings that have yet to be found out by the opposition, add to that the undoubted charismatic leadership of Ranieri - however they are playing above their level at present and more than likely be relying on Ranieri more and more as they play the 2nd round of games against now a more savvy opponent.

You can then look at Pelligrini - here clearly his leadership is now critically undermined by the unconfirmed fact that he is a goner at the end of the season - likewise Van Lunatic at the swamp, his leadership has been challenged frequently and undermined most likely by the family guy and so yet again you get the message and instructions to players dissipated through the noise created by the lack of trust in he knows what he is talking about.

Sorry to waffle on and hopefully I don't sound too pretentious or academic !!!

Mikejl interseting perspectives and exactly the sort of debate I was trying to provoke, I think to some extent I agree with you re the Eva Caneiro episode it did seem to be a turning point where his messages were no longer being listened to, that said, the same group of players, under the same leadership and demonstrably poorer results

With regards Leicester you will note that their champions league form was demonstrated under a different manager for the last 9 games of the season, they found a couple of results foudn their confidence and have not looked back since. Same manager, same methodologies but much better results. Clearly Ranieri's methods are working this season but they didn't when he was manager of Greece.......

You are right about Klopp and makes my point that ultimately it is players that will dictate whether you are successful or not, not the manager

Personally, my belief is that given the same group of players, the same level of support (and discounting internal discord as seen towards the end of Mancini's reign) that results would be demonstrably the same over a set period of time once you get to a certain 'level' of manager. Ultimately, results come down very often to a lot of factors outside a managers control, refereeing decisions, individual errors, injuries, cup draws (note champions league) etc I genuinely believe that given the same group of players that Hughes would have got us success given the chance.

It is absolutely undeniable that irrespective of manager a team that manages to harness that confidence and play free of pressure will always perform better, the evidence bears it out. It's also undeniably true that without excellent players you will fail to get excellent results but confidence can mean that average/good players will get excellent results over and above their abilities but usually unless they are excellent players it won't last - irrespective of the manager.

Similarly a 'proven' good manager like Ancellotti, Klopp, Pellegrini, Gaurdiola, Mourinho will always be good managers at the top of their game and given the above factors you will ultimately end up at or near the top. It will be the other factors as described above that come into play that can make a very good manager sometimes seem not so. That's why to some degree I'm indifferent about Guardiola. I would absolutely appoint him if he wants to come but then I would ensure he was our manager for the next 10, 15, 20 years.

It is for these reasons that I fail to understand why people spend so much time analysing and obsessing over a specific manager or coming out with nonsense like he's clueless, doesn't learn - these are managers that have had proven success using tried and trusted methods - if they're not happy with whats happening they are looking in the wrong place for problems.

That's not to say there is never a reason to change a manager but to my mind if you get a proven manager stick with him and support him and if you sign the right players and luck is on your side that is when you will see success. Fortunately it has happened for us in recent years but with a lot of City fans we always seem ready to press the self destruct button, blaming the manager and forgetting that this set of players have delivered success for us and can do so again.
 

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