denislawsbackheel
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Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
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Life after death? Your thoughts?
- Thread starter OnlyOneUweRosler
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OnlyOneUweRosler
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denislawsbackheel said:Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Being with God forever sounds good to me
Citizenhill
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The concept of it all bores me, live your life here, if god was gonna accept you I'd feel it'd be for getting on with your life and enjoying it.
1.618034
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OnlyOneUweRosler said:What are your thoughts about life after death?
It's an oxymoron. How can there be life after death? That would mean that when you die you don't die so therefore you're not dead.
Is there life after death for any other species other than human...? And if not, why not?
BertTrautmann'sParachute
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A bit like Torquay, then.*denislawsbackheel said:Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
*Talking Heads?
OnlyOneUweRosler
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1.618034 said:OnlyOneUweRosler said:What are your thoughts about life after death?
It's an oxymoron. How can there be life after death? That would mean that when you die you don't die so therefore you're not dead.
Is there life after death for any other species other than human...? And if not, why not?
The following link may help you
The Bible states that both man (Genesis 2:7) and animals (Genesis 1:30; 6:17; 7:15, 22) have the breath of life. The primary difference between human beings and animals is that humanity is made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27), while animals are not.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html</a>
Steviesleftpeg
Well-Known Member
One way to look at life after death would be to look at Near Death Experiences - NDE - (as these represent the common features of the life after death. Although intially thought to be rare (Roberts & Groome, 2001), it is now thought it affects 1/3 of those who have been close to death (Irwin, 1999), 70% of clergymen (Royce, 1985) and 5% of the US population (Proctor, 1982).
Moody (1975) & Ring (1980) looked at over 200 cases of individuals who had experienced NDE's and cited there are 5 main stages of having a near death experience.
1. A feeling of peace, well-being and power: One iconic example is the Heims (1892) mountaineering disaster.
2. Outter body experience: Often seeing each other as an astral form, seeing ourselves and others from birds-eye view and seeing resuscitation attempts (Fenwick & Fenwick, 1994).
3. Passing through a dark tunnel: Travelling through a dark place/tunnel and moving rapidly towards something (Ring, 1980).
4. Seeing a bright light: Seeing and moving towards a bright light. This light is often engulfing but not harmful (Saborn, 1982) and is often likened to a god like figure.
5. Being in a heavenly area/paradise: The idea that passing through the bright light takes us into a heavenly land, populated with dead spirits, dead relatives and god like figures. Often individuals do not want to return, but often do so with a jolt.
Explanations
Religion - The 'life after death' (Roberts & Groome, 2001).
- Based on the 'Survival hypothesis' (Irwin, 1985; 1999) and the idea spirit lives on after the physical body has passed on.
- Has immense popular and public appeal (Fenwick & Fenwick, 1994).
- Saborn (1982) argued not only does this theory account for the 5 stages outlined above he argues it is backed up by the fact that those who experience NDE's often can recall information they cannot have accessed in a sensory fashion (e.g. because they were unconscious). It is argued this is because they are there is spirit form.
But
However before the concept of life after death can be accepted other theories, based on practical science, must be considered. If these can account for the characteristics of an NDE then it would suggest life after death does not exist.
Physiological theories
1) Endorphins; During physical pain the brain releases many endorphins to tackle the pain. Another side effect of these natural anesthetics is the give a strong feeling of well-being etc.
- This has been supported by research by Judson (1983) who found that drugs which stop the release of endorphins had lead to individuals having a negative NDE not a positive of well-being and power.
- Also supported by Jansen (1997) who found the naturally occurring anesthetic Ketamine produced characteristics similar to those in NDE's (e.g. lights, spiritual figures).
- However some endorphins can inhibit NDE's, the effects of NDE's are vivid, but the effects of endorphins like hallucinations, and last much longer than NDE's
2) Cerebral Anoxia; The idea of a lack of oxygen to the brain. This occurs typically close to death.
- Whinnery (1990) conducted a study on pilots who suffer cerebral anoxia when accelerating a high altitude. Found they all suffered from symptoms similar to those reported in NDE's.
- Doesn't account for NDE's when no cerebral anoxia (e.g. when death is only 'perceived')
3) Temporal Lobe Epilepsy; Hynoxia (impaired oxygen to the brain).
- Lack of oxygen results in temporal lobe epilepsy (e.g. lights, voices etc).
- Although epilepsy often auditory whereas life after death is often visual. NDE's often meaningful but fits are random unorganized.
4) Drug induced hallucinations; (Greyson, 2000)
5) Dying brain Hypothesis (Blackmore, 1983)
Psychological Theories
1) Depersonalization; The idea that when the concept of death is inevitable, the mind replaces it with a more positive fantasy. If death is avoidable then all resources are guided to survival, but when impossible we relate more positive fantasy (e.g. life flashing before the eyes).
2) Reliving the birth experience; In times of stress our body returns us to a state of previous stress (e.g. the birth).
- Naff theory!
Life After Death, does it exist?
Granted none of the scientific theories can give a completely comprehensive account of all the factors and characteristics which make up life after death. However they do supply loads of experimental predictions and results which clinically prove that SOME of the factors are just chemical/psychological factors. Therefore until all these scientific resources are drained we cannot fully accept the idea of life after death.
Good enough thoughts for you?
Moody (1975) & Ring (1980) looked at over 200 cases of individuals who had experienced NDE's and cited there are 5 main stages of having a near death experience.
1. A feeling of peace, well-being and power: One iconic example is the Heims (1892) mountaineering disaster.
2. Outter body experience: Often seeing each other as an astral form, seeing ourselves and others from birds-eye view and seeing resuscitation attempts (Fenwick & Fenwick, 1994).
3. Passing through a dark tunnel: Travelling through a dark place/tunnel and moving rapidly towards something (Ring, 1980).
4. Seeing a bright light: Seeing and moving towards a bright light. This light is often engulfing but not harmful (Saborn, 1982) and is often likened to a god like figure.
5. Being in a heavenly area/paradise: The idea that passing through the bright light takes us into a heavenly land, populated with dead spirits, dead relatives and god like figures. Often individuals do not want to return, but often do so with a jolt.
Explanations
Religion - The 'life after death' (Roberts & Groome, 2001).
- Based on the 'Survival hypothesis' (Irwin, 1985; 1999) and the idea spirit lives on after the physical body has passed on.
- Has immense popular and public appeal (Fenwick & Fenwick, 1994).
- Saborn (1982) argued not only does this theory account for the 5 stages outlined above he argues it is backed up by the fact that those who experience NDE's often can recall information they cannot have accessed in a sensory fashion (e.g. because they were unconscious). It is argued this is because they are there is spirit form.
But
However before the concept of life after death can be accepted other theories, based on practical science, must be considered. If these can account for the characteristics of an NDE then it would suggest life after death does not exist.
Physiological theories
1) Endorphins; During physical pain the brain releases many endorphins to tackle the pain. Another side effect of these natural anesthetics is the give a strong feeling of well-being etc.
- This has been supported by research by Judson (1983) who found that drugs which stop the release of endorphins had lead to individuals having a negative NDE not a positive of well-being and power.
- Also supported by Jansen (1997) who found the naturally occurring anesthetic Ketamine produced characteristics similar to those in NDE's (e.g. lights, spiritual figures).
- However some endorphins can inhibit NDE's, the effects of NDE's are vivid, but the effects of endorphins like hallucinations, and last much longer than NDE's
2) Cerebral Anoxia; The idea of a lack of oxygen to the brain. This occurs typically close to death.
- Whinnery (1990) conducted a study on pilots who suffer cerebral anoxia when accelerating a high altitude. Found they all suffered from symptoms similar to those reported in NDE's.
- Doesn't account for NDE's when no cerebral anoxia (e.g. when death is only 'perceived')
3) Temporal Lobe Epilepsy; Hynoxia (impaired oxygen to the brain).
- Lack of oxygen results in temporal lobe epilepsy (e.g. lights, voices etc).
- Although epilepsy often auditory whereas life after death is often visual. NDE's often meaningful but fits are random unorganized.
4) Drug induced hallucinations; (Greyson, 2000)
5) Dying brain Hypothesis (Blackmore, 1983)
Psychological Theories
1) Depersonalization; The idea that when the concept of death is inevitable, the mind replaces it with a more positive fantasy. If death is avoidable then all resources are guided to survival, but when impossible we relate more positive fantasy (e.g. life flashing before the eyes).
2) Reliving the birth experience; In times of stress our body returns us to a state of previous stress (e.g. the birth).
- Naff theory!
Life After Death, does it exist?
Granted none of the scientific theories can give a completely comprehensive account of all the factors and characteristics which make up life after death. However they do supply loads of experimental predictions and results which clinically prove that SOME of the factors are just chemical/psychological factors. Therefore until all these scientific resources are drained we cannot fully accept the idea of life after death.
Good enough thoughts for you?
OnlyOneUweRosler
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O0KCfLqMZo[/youtube]
1.618034
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OnlyOneUweRosler said:1.618034 said:OnlyOneUweRosler said:What are your thoughts about life after death?
It's an oxymoron. How can there be life after death? That would mean that when you die you don't die so therefore you're not dead.
Is there life after death for any other species other than human...? And if not, why not?
The following link may help you
The Bible states that both man (Genesis 2:7) and animals (Genesis 1:30; 6:17; 7:15, 22) have the breath of life. The primary difference between human beings and animals is that humanity is made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27), while animals are not.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html</a>
Oh well that's that then. Sorry I asked. I mean, you've got chapter numbers and everything, so it must be true!
How about not quoting works of fiction? Next thing you'll be telling me that there won't be any peace until the ring is returned to the volcano or that the chosen one will be able to crack the Matrix.
OnlyOneUweRosler
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1.618034 said:OnlyOneUweRosler said:1.618034 said:It's an oxymoron. How can there be life after death? That would mean that when you die you don't die so therefore you're not dead.
Is there life after death for any other species other than human...? And if not, why not?
The following link may help you
The Bible states that both man (Genesis 2:7) and animals (Genesis 1:30; 6:17; 7:15, 22) have the breath of life. The primary difference between human beings and animals is that humanity is made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27), while animals are not.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html</a>
Oh well that's that then. Sorry I asked. I mean, you've got chapter numbers and everything, so it must be true!
How about not quoting works of fiction? Next thing you'll be telling me that there won't be any peace until the ring is returned to the volcano or that the chosen one will be able to crack the Matrix.
The Bible isn't fiction, archaeology and science back it up
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-archaeology.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-archaeology.html</a>