Liverpool bus damaged on journey back from Etihad Stadium today

Most of that, I have no issue with. That is completely different to claiming fans deliberately sing it because it lets them sing about Hillsborough while pretending it is not.

I think you should be issuing a statement for that.

I don't understand how you can agree with comment about how ATV is clearly linked to Hillsborough and then reply that it's outrageous to think people who are singing about it think they're signing about Hillsborough.


Anyway we're going in circles here and I think I've had enough Bluemoon for the day. IMO the evidence it's linked is pretty clear, the furore in the press every time it's sung means that no one can plead ignorance to the controversy surrounding it, and I'm sure people will still sing it and still complain when the club condemns it.
 
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There really is no point in wasting any energy thinking about this on their behalf. They’d find a Hillsborough reference in an episode of Countryfile or Saturday Kitchen at a push.

In a full Spurs stadium 1 in 20 people would still be a few thousand, so you'd hear it clearly, and it's probably safe to assume the away fan contingent are more likely to hold onto the chant and approve of it than the family stand, so I'm sure it's heard at most Spurs games up and down the country, but that's not necessarily proof of how the majority feel.
Wife's cousin, who is not Jewish and lives 250 miles from WHL, has a prominent Yid army tattoo on his leg along with the Spurs cockerell. Each to their own.
 
I don't understand how you can agree with comment about how ATV is clearly linked to Hillsborough and then reply that it's outrageous to think people who are singing about it think they're signing about Hillsborough.


Anyway we're going in circles here and I think I've had enough Bluemoon for the day. IMO the evidence it's linked is pretty clear, the furore in the press every time it's sung means that no one can plead ignorance to the controversy surrounding it, and I'm sure people will still sing it and still complain when the club condemns it.
Now how's this,you are Anglian Tele Vision ,, A T V
 
The eighties were a pretty grim time for the country and football. Strikes, riots, lots of unemployment and poverty. Against this depressing backdrop football violence was unsurprisingly at its peak, played in crumbling not fit for purpose stadiums. In quick succession we had the Bradford fire and the Heysel disaster, swiftly followed by the European ban on English clubs. Thatcher and her government declared war on football fans. Four years later, with not much changed, Hillsborough happened, again unsurprisingly.

Such was the contempt football fans were held in at that time, Liverpool fans in particular after Heysel, it was easy for the government, police and media to put all the blame onto them. Nobody questioned it, except of course for the fans who were there, but who would believe them? For people who didn't go to games all football fans were thugs and deserved everything they got. Match going fans knew differently but they were all tarred with the same brush and nobody wanted to hear their side of things. That's why it was so easy to cover up and lie about what happened. It was still a time that the authority and police were held in high regard and their word rarely questioned. The Sun, the most popular newspaper of the day, did a real hatchet job on the fans at Hillsborough. That as good as collaborated the police version of events.

One thing I admire the scousers for is their tenacity and sheer bloody mindedness to fight to the bitter end in a cause they believe in. Anybody who knew the political landscape back then knows what a huge almost impossible task they faced. That's why it took so long.

Analysing it now Liverpool fans weren't to blame, but also, aside from the disgraceful lies and cover ups after the event, the police were, like the Liverpool fans, victims of the times and circumstances as well. Thousands of fans turning up late and being crushed outside led to the police commander making the fatal decision to open the gates. In truth he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. I have no doubt if he hadn't people would have died outside too. Were there fans without tickets who seized their chance to rush in? Almost inevitably, but we'll never know for sure. What we do know is Hillsborough and in particular the Leppings Lane terrace was not fit for purpose and it's design of small pens and the fences, faced with a sudden surge of people, led to tragedy. One thing that sadly hit home how bad things were regarding hooliganism and the police's reaction to football fans was the perimeter police on the day. They could see people were being crushed, screaming in distress right in front of their eyes but they refused to open the gates in the fences. Even worse anybody trying to climb over the fences to escape were being beaten back with batons.

I have got lost in a bit of a tangent here and lost my train of thought but these things had to be said. Liverpool fans back then were cunts, well a lot of them and they aren't a lot better now. Make no mistake though that day at Hillsborough would have happened to any other set of football fans, including ours. It was a perfect storm years in the making and that day it broke with devastating consequences.

Thirty four years later do i think they use it to their advantage to gloss over their own many episodes of thuggish behaviour? Yes sadly I do. Even more sadly, given that they have been involved in two of the worst disasters in football, they appear to have learnt very little from them. After our club and fans showing total respect, on i think the 25th anniversary of the disaster, they repaid that respect by stoning on of our coaches and attacking our fans. If they want the continued empathy and respect of other football fans for Hillsborough they really have to address their own behaviour as well. They can't have it all their own way, no matter what the media say.
 
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It is linked to Hillsborough whether you like it or not,
It's not explicitly mentioning it, and I suspect many singing it don't explicitly link it to Hillsborough, but the important thing is it can be or be seen to be linked to it, which is why it's better not to sing it.

But I also suspect many are appalled by the hypocrisy of that fanbase, who have shown no respect for the victims of Munich, or Harold Shipman, no respect for the safety of players and fans in coaches and no respect for the Queen.

Also the way they've shrilly gone about this, in an outraged and entitled way instead of approaching it in a more measured, mature way, by engaging with fan groups as peers, makes it hard to have any sympathy with them.
 
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Ohhhh nooooo now I’m going to cry. ;-) I missed the Johnny Stones chant. He is up there with Zaba and also with my absolute hero Dunnie Monster. :-)

I stayed on after the game and in the South stand we carried on singing the Johnny Stones song and he was waving his arm along in time to the chant.
 

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