Lyon (H) - Post Match Thread

Gundogon needs to be rotated with some of the fans ,I'm sure there are thousands who can pass it back to the man who passed it to him, lose it, get ambushed regularly, .never win a header,pull out of every tackle and run slower than a steamroller. What Pep sees in him I cant for the life of me understand. Give Foden a chance , if he does anything at all it will be an improvement.
 
The result was a foregone conclusion with the team.selection. The question being, is Pep overestimating some of his players ability or underestimating the opposition. Similar to Wigan FA Cup, Wolves Carabao Cup last year.
 
I still think we had enough out on the pitch to beat Lyon on Wednesday if the players collectively - with one or two honourable exceptions - hadn’t chosen the night to put in bang average/poor performances and hadn’t made the kind of basic defensive errors that get punished at this level.
 
Knew we were in for a tough night when Gundogan and Ferna were starting together. They don't play well together at all imo. Try and occupy the same space, slow the pace of the game. Ferna starting with Bernardo & Silva with Sane on the left made a lot more sense, we looked 10x better when this happened, and they should have hooked gundogan off when we went 2 down really
 
I must have missed something because I didn't think we were much better - if any - in the second half compared to the first. The only difference was that we were chasing a 2-0 deficit and Lyon had a 2 goal cushion to defend so could afford to sit back and expect a bit of pressure from us.

Did we create any clear cut chances of note during the second half? Sane's missed header is the clearest i can think of off the top of my head. Lyon were still able to create 2 or 3 of their own. Our play was just as slow and off the ball movement non existent. Sterling and Sane when he came on were exceptions to this case.

Bernardo has been superb this season but other than the goal itself done absolutely nothing on Wednesday night and should have been hooked before either Sterling or Jesus imo.

A mixture of things seemed to go wrong for us, it wasn't totally a case of starting Gundo with Fernandinho which was the problem. We *weren't* much better when that system changed in my opinion.
 
Shamelessly stolen from elsewhere but if this is correct then it's clear we have a selection problem.

All negative results

Shakhtar away - no KDB and Silva, Aguero bench
Palace away - no Silva, Aguero bench
Liverpool away - no Silva
Burnley away - no Silva
Basel home CL - no Silva, Aguero or KDB
Liverpool away CL - no Aguero
United home - KDB and Aguero on the bench
Liverpool home CL - Aguero bench
Huddesrfield home - no Aguero
Wolves away - no KDB
Lyon home - no KDB, Aguero bench

The 3 players concerned cannot play every game and their replacements are not good enough.
 
We need more crowd suppport at cl home games,there were so many empty seats,need to make opponnents feel uncomfortable when playing at our fortress
 
dave_blue12 said:
Shamelessly stolen from elsewhere but if this is correct then it's clear we have a selection problem.

All negative results

Shakhtar away - no KDB and Silva, Aguero bench
Palace away - no Silva, Aguero bench
Liverpool away - no Silva
Burnley away - no Silva
Basel home CL - no Silva, Aguero or KDB
Liverpool away CL - no Aguero
United home - KDB and Aguero on the bench
Liverpool home CL - Aguero bench
Huddesrfield home - no Aguero
Wolves away - no KDB
Lyon home - no KDB, Aguero bench

The 3 players concerned cannot play every game and their replacements are not good enough.
Click to expand...

This is really insightful and shows where the issue is.
 
dave_blue12 said:
Shamelessly stolen from elsewhere but if this is correct then it's clear we have a selection problem.

All negative results

Shakhtar away - no KDB and Silva, Aguero bench
Palace away - no Silva, Aguero bench
Liverpool away - no Silva
Burnley away - no Silva
Basel home CL - no Silva, Aguero or KDB
Liverpool away CL - no Aguero
United home - KDB and Aguero on the bench
Liverpool home CL - Aguero bench
Huddesrfield home - no Aguero
Wolves away - no KDB
Lyon home - no KDB, Aguero bench

The 3 players concerned cannot play every game and their replacements are not good enough.
Click to expand...

And those are the players that we can least afford to be missing. This highlights how important they are and how inferior their replacements are.
 
levets said:
And those are the players that we can least afford to be missing. This highlights how important they are and how inferior their replacements are.
Click to expand...

True. Every time I see a team selection without them I am concerned.

Sometimes we get a result but these guys are so important to the team that they must play in the crucial games if they're not injured.

With KDB injured both David and Kun must play. Pep made a big mistake with his selection against Lyon by not playing Kun from the start. Sadly for now Gabby is not an adequate replacement.
 
To me 2 days on it's abundantly apparent that the players were clueless without Pep guiding them. That smacks as the main reason why we lost so easily.
 
BLUEMATT23 said:
To me 2 days on it's abundantly apparent that the players were clueless without Pep guiding them. That smacks as the main reason why we lost so easily.
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly that was a big issue, it shows how important him being on the touch line is. However, the team selection and positional placement was crackers. How many games did Pep get? Just the one?
 
levets said:
Undoubtedly that was a big issue, it shows how important him being on the touch line is. However, the team selection and positional placement was crackers. How many games did Pep get? Just the one?
Click to expand...

Expect more touchline bans for Pep going forward
 
im amazed at how many wanted Aguero to start even though him limped off halfway through game before. still we wont burn our players out
 
B\connellblue said:
Gundogon needs to be rotated with some of the fans ,I'm sure there are thousands who can pass it back to the man who passed it to him, lose it, get ambushed regularly, .never win a header,pull out of every tackle and run slower than a steamroller. What Pep sees in him I cant for the life of me understand. Give Foden a chance , if he does anything at all it will be an improvement.
Click to expand...
If the transfer window was open all season I would have sold him the day after the match. Adds nothing and hasn't done so since his long injury here. I feel fr the guy on a personal level but he just isn't good enough at any particular thing to be in our team.
 
dave_blue12 said:
True. Every time I see a team selection without them I am concerned.

Sometimes we get a result but these guys are so important to the team that they must play in the crucial games if they're not injured.

With KDB injured both David and Kun must play. Pep made a big mistake with his selection against Lyon by not playing Kun from the start. Sadly for now Gabby is not an adequate replacement.
Click to expand...
The adequare replacement was playing for Lyon, stealing the ball off Fernandinho and scoring the goal.
 
levets said:
And those are the players that we can least afford to be missing. This highlights how important they are and how inferior their replacements are.
Click to expand...
Ok so Gundogan started in all except 2 of those performances (I looked it up myself because everyone in England is asleep and this is the kind of thing I do on my Friday nights). Gundogan also started in our 2 draws in the league cup last season that we only one on penalties and our loss to Wigan in the FA Cup.

Let that sink in. In our most successful period ever, 1 player has started in virtually all our poorest results. People are going to think I'm on a character assassination based on my recent posts but I defended Gundogan for a long time and I really do feel for him as a person and what he has had to go through with injuries. Something just snapped in me over the last 2 matches though seeing him come on against Fulham in the game that was already at walking pace and still look slow and then his useless performance against Lyon. It's not that he does anything really badly it's that he really just doesn't ADD anything, anything at all. Try Zinchenko, try Foden, try anyone else but Gundogan is not good enough, he hasn't been for some time and Pep needs to see it. I hope the Lyon game opened his eyes but I doubt it.
 
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