You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Mac or PC??
- Thread starter BermudaBlue
- Start date
Dalian Blue
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:I'm a computer programmer, which means that I've spent about 28 thousand hours discussing this topic amongst my peers.
To save a long post on this, I'll just use an analogy.
Macs are Liverpool; fashionable, look shiny, but ultimately crap and built on a myth.
Windows based computers are Real Madrid; hugely popular for a good reason, less crap but still ultimately crap.
Linux computers are Marseille. Purposely designed from the ground up to be not crap (which it achieved in parts), but pretty unfashionable and you have to have a sports science degree to watch them play.
OS wise:
Linux > Windows > Mac
Hardware:
Linux/Windows > Mac
Usability:
Mac > Windows > Linux
Security:
Linux > Mac > Windows
Ability to run programs you want:
Windows > Mac/Linux
Price/Performance Graph:
Linux >>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows > Mac
That about sums it up.
Hiya Damocles, I'm not a computer programmer or anything remotely like that - I think the distinction between 'Mac' and 'PC' is actually the operating system. Macs & Linux machines are using UNIX based OS (OS X being based on BSD Unix), Macroshaft use executable code which is wide open to the virus issues.
It's a matter of horses for courses, if a user wants to play games, the buy a Windoze machine. Personally I use a Mac laptop, I like it. My home system runs Opensuse - I'm happy with that. But then, I don't play games on my machines.
And as you will be well aware, the majority of servers on the good old internet are running Linux / UNIX and not Windows.
I use Aperture a lot, dogs doodahs, and I haven't seen any application that is anywhere near that on a 'PC' or Linux system. (If I had maybe I wouldn't have bought a Mac).
Just a thought....
dxbroy said:Hiya Damocles, I'm not a computer programmer or anything remotely like that - I think the distinction between 'Mac' and 'PC' is actually the operating system. Macs & Linux machines are using UNIX based OS (OS X being based on BSD Unix), Macroshaft use executable code which is wide open to the virus issues.
You're a little confused here.
Firstly, Linux isn't based on Unix, it was built completely from scratch as a replacement for Unix. It's a kernel to replace the Unix kernel, and the GNUtools libraries replaces the various tools built into Unix. When people say it is "Unix based", they mean that it shares a similar syntax and sometimes architecture.
Secondly, the difference between a Mac and a PC is now completely eradicated which is why I used the terms "Mac, Windows and Linux" rather than Mac and PC. PC used to mean (in this context) IBM-compatible Personal Computers, recognising that the processor architecture was based on the Intel 8086 model of processor, now usually shortened to x86 (there's bits of history in between this, but that's really the basics). The difference, was that Macs used to use a different processor architecture, in the beginning the Motorola then later the PowerPC chips, which weren't even close to compatible with x86 applications. As Macs are now using the x86 architecture, they are essentially PCs.
Thirdly, OSX isn't based on BSD. OSX is based upon a kernel built by Steve Jobs' previous company called XNU. The XNU kernel uses Mach as the main microkernel, and uses pieces of code from FreeBSD for the POSIX API. Basically, the only thing that OSX and BSD have in common is that OSX has copied the way that they talk to the shell and applications. The main part of the kernel and of the operating system is owned, patented and invented by Apple and NeXT
Lastly, you say that "Macroshaft use executable code which is wide open to the virus issues". Whist that is true, you seem a little confused on this too. Windows, Linux, Mac OSX, Symbian, your microwave, etc; basically anything that is a computer, relies on executable code. Windows does use the EXE file format which is no more or less secure than .APP, .DMG or even .DEB.
Windows machines are more susceptible to viruses, simply because they are targeted more (as it's more popular), and that's it. The security on Windows 7 is pretty excellent, even better than Linux or Mac to be honest because they have been forced to deal with it head on, whilst the other companies/communities could sacrifice some security for usability.
It's a matter of horses for courses, if a user wants to play games, the buy a Windoze machine. Personally I use a Mac laptop, I like it. My home system runs Opensuse - I'm happy with that. But then, I don't play games on my machines.
And as you will be well aware, the majority of servers on the good old internet are running Linux / UNIX and not Windows.
I use Aperture a lot, dogs doodahs, and I haven't seen any application that is anywhere near that on a 'PC' or Linux system. (If I had maybe I wouldn't have bought a Mac).
Just a thought....
This is oversimplified. Windows isn't just for games. A previously mentioned example is .NET apps. Miguel has done fantastic things with Moonlight and Mono, but it just isn't there yet and developing any .NET stuff on other platforms is horrific. Don't think that it's just MS that lock down their development platforms either, Apple does the same with the Mac/iPhone range and also forces you to use a, quite frankly, crap programming language in Objective-C. So far, it's pretty impossible to develop iPhone apps on anything but a Mac.
Linux has its share of problems too. Open Office and the like are nice, but they fuck up your formatting in MSN Office and vice versa. Linux is very much an operating system for people with time and ability to research.
Example, let's say you want to mount a disc image:
Windows: Install Daemon Tools, right click ISO
Mac: Double click ISO
Linux: Go to shell. Type mount -o -loop -t -iso9660 /my/place/to/mount /my/iso/file/name.iso. Realise that you've fucked it up then type the exact same thing with "sudo" at the beginning.
Linux will do far more with it's mount utility than either OSs, but with the power comes an expectation to learn.
As far as servers are concerned, this site runs Windows Server simply because it's Ric's preferred production environment for ASP.NET. We've spoken about a switch to Linux a few times and I have no doubt that it will happen once life calms down for both of us. However, this is because though I am pretty good with IIS, I'm far, far better with Apache and I prefer the server management tools on Linux.
However, the newer generation of server ops and those in big companies are starting to migrate towards Windows for the operating system and IIS for the server. The new version of IIS is actually very good, and very usable.
Regarding Aperture, have you tried Adobe Lightroom?
Damocles said:dxbroy said:Hiya Damocles, I'm not a computer programmer or anything remotely like that - I think the distinction between 'Mac' and 'PC' is actually the operating system. Macs & Linux machines are using UNIX based OS (OS X being based on BSD Unix), Macroshaft use executable code which is wide open to the virus issues.
You're a little confused here.
Firstly, Linux isn't based on Unix, it was built completely from scratch as a replacement for Unix. It's a kernel to replace the Unix kernel, and the GNUtools libraries replaces the various tools built into Unix. When people say it is "Unix based", they mean that it shares a similar syntax and sometimes architecture.
Secondly, the difference between a Mac and a PC is now completely eradicated which is why I used the terms "Mac, Windows and Linux" rather than Mac and PC. PC used to mean (in this context) IBM-compatible Personal Computers, recognising that the processor architecture was based on the Intel 8086 model of processor, now usually shortened to x86 (there's bits of history in between this, but that's really the basics). The difference, was that Macs used to use a different processor architecture, in the beginning the Motorola then later the PowerPC chips, which weren't even close to compatible with x86 applications. As Macs are now using the x86 architecture, they are essentially PCs.
Thirdly, OSX isn't based on BSD. OSX is based upon a kernel built by Steve Jobs' previous company called XNU. The XNU kernel uses Mach as the main microkernel, and uses pieces of code from FreeBSD for the POSIX API. Basically, the only thing that OSX and BSD have in common is that OSX has copied the way that they talk to the shell and applications. The main part of the kernel and of the operating system is owned, patented and invented by Apple and NeXT
Lastly, you say that "Macroshaft use executable code which is wide open to the virus issues". Whist that is true, you seem a little confused on this too. Windows, Linux, Mac OSX, Symbian, your microwave, etc; basically anything that is a computer, relies on executable code. Windows does use the EXE file format which is no more or less secure than .APP, .DMG or even .DEB.
Windows machines are more susceptible to viruses, simply because they are targeted more (as it's more popular), and that's it. The security on Windows 7 is pretty excellent, even better than Linux or Mac to be honest because they have been forced to deal with it head on, whilst the other companies/communities could sacrifice some security for usability.
It's a matter of horses for courses, if a user wants to play games, the buy a Windoze machine. Personally I use a Mac laptop, I like it. My home system runs Opensuse - I'm happy with that. But then, I don't play games on my machines.
And as you will be well aware, the majority of servers on the good old internet are running Linux / UNIX and not Windows.
I use Aperture a lot, dogs doodahs, and I haven't seen any application that is anywhere near that on a 'PC' or Linux system. (If I had maybe I wouldn't have bought a Mac).
Just a thought....
This is oversimplified. Windows isn't just for games. A previously mentioned example is .NET apps. Miguel has done fantastic things with Moonlight and Mono, but it just isn't there yet and developing any .NET stuff on other platforms is horrific. Don't think that it's just MS that lock down their development platforms either, Apple does the same with the Mac/iPhone range and also forces you to use a, quite frankly, crap programming language in Objective-C. So far, it's pretty impossible to develop iPhone apps on anything but a Mac.
Linux has its share of problems too. Open Office and the like are nice, but they fuck up your formatting in MSN Office and vice versa. Linux is very much an operating system for people with time and ability to research.
Example, let's say you want to mount a disc image:
Windows: Install Daemon Tools, right click ISO
Mac: Double click ISO
Linux: Go to shell. Type mount -o -loop -t -iso9660 /my/place/to/mount /my/iso/file/name.iso. Realise that you've fucked it up then type the exact same thing with "sudo" at the beginning.
Linux will do far more with it's mount utility than either OSs, but with the power comes an expectation to learn.
As far as servers are concerned, this site runs Windows Server simply because it's Ric's preferred production environment for ASP.NET. We've spoken about a switch to Linux a few times and I have no doubt that it will happen once life calms down for both of us. However, this is because though I am pretty good with IIS, I'm far, far better with Apache and I prefer the server management tools on Linux.
However, the newer generation of server ops and those in big companies are starting to migrate towards Windows for the operating system and IIS for the server. The new version of IIS is actually very good, and very usable.
Regarding Aperture, have you tried Adobe Lightroom?
W O W