Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[TFC]

I credit Pellehrini for trying something different, a plan that clearly had merit, unless we ignore the second half?

Some are ignoring it as "Barca had already won, so they slacked off", because it suits their argument.

The problem on Tuesday night was that the players selected, didn't do their jobs in the first half, like they did in the second half, after presumably being given a rocket at half time.

You see, to me, that's been the problem with us in the CL under both managers - poor starts, poor attitude, first halves devoid of cohesive play and organised, collective effort. When I see most teams turn out in the CL, i can usually (and quite clearly) see there is an extra level of discipline and a collective performance level. That is what the MCFC manager needs to instill, not this or that tactic or formation.

I think if there is a man out there who can instill a consistent level of performance in this squad, and I'm talking no more half arsed, amble out of the blocks performances like we see on a too frequent basis, the sky could very well be the limit. Does that fella exist is the question....

 

[cibaman]

Five in midfield lost twice to Barcelona twice last season, lost at Bayern, was losing to 10 men Bayern. Lost to Arsenal. That's just off the top my head. I'm glad Pellegrini tried something different. A plan that the second half clearly showed was right.

Folk can suggest the 451, but it hasn't worked either.

Calling it a 442 would highlight how little someone knows about the game. David Silva and Samir Basri are hardly Wilcox and Ripley.

4231 or 433 or 451 clearly wasn't working with its obvious failings. Barca home and away, Arsenal this season, Bayern home and away this season. Only at 442 did we look like scoring again vs Bayern at home.

It's getting really boring from the 'told you so brigade', the same posters weirdly absent when their suggested tactics fail miserably as they frequently have.

Where were those 442 critics after we lost to Arsenal. Our players our squad isn't that great, we are only great playing to our strengths.

As I've said before, we could have played every central midfielder we had vs Barca, we'd have still even run off the park, see us vs Bayern's ten men.

I credit Pellehrini for trying something different, a plan that clearly had merit, unless we ignore the second half?

Its more about personnel than what label is attached to the formation. I dont really care what label is given to the system we used in Roma, couldnt give a monkey whether it was 4-4-2, 4-5-1, or whatever. It worked because we had the right players (of those available) in the right places. Navas and Milner shored up the flanks in a way that Silva and Nasri cannot when faced with attacking fullbacks. Nasri droppped back at the right times, something that Aguero doesnt. The attacking players and wide players supported the defenders and central midfield players, something that the personnel deployed on Tuesday just weren't capable of doing against exceptional opponents.

 

[mosssideblue]

The big problem for Pellegrini that this is his third time with a very strong squad and cant go further than the last 16 of CL.
Biggest fail was obviously his awful loss to Lyon with Real Madrid. Last year the 4-1 loss to Barca wasnt much better but at least we had a very strong opponent. Well yeah Barca was in shit form around that time, finished only 3rd in league their manager had to leave and was easily ripped apart just the very next round by Atletico. Against us they made 4-1 in two games...

Then comes this season with a very awful CL group stage where we just get trough mostly because we struggle against sides like Roma and CSKA. Their squads comes nowhere near close to ours but rely on luck and other things to get somehow trough which we did at least.

Then its Barca again, a probably betterBarca than last year based on their recent form, and they still in with a good chance in their league two, also Suarez made their attack stronger.
(I think Suarez more likely to decide a match than Sanchez that Barca sold espeically when it comes to a very big game.)

We go 442, with the wrong personnel, 442 is not a horrible thing to play if you do it with right personnel, right work rate, right mentality.
I dont think we had the right mentality even tho we talked the talk before the game how we dont fear them, we will attack them, we will show them they cant mess ith us again, we do this and that.
Than we concede early, start panich, forget to press, forget to tackle, forget to mark players. We ar nearly comepletely out of the tie and 3-0 down in 45 minutes and then finally we start to play well for 20 minutes. Than lack of discipline gets us down to 10 men, and its a fight to avoid being 1-3 or 1-4. Zabaleta tries his best to make it 1-3, Hart saves us...

We got worse in CL from last season based on all of this and the CL group stage.

I add the two other cup exits and the way we exited. Newcastle reserve and Boro winning at Etihad. We fucking even panicked when Boro scored. Why wouldnt we panick then when Fc Barcelona scores.
Then as hardly surprising the big Newcastle reserve instantly beaten out of competition after they beat us same with Boro.

Based on the simple fact barca is very strong but nowhere near as strong as they were under Guardiola few years ago it wouldnt surprise me to see them really struggle to get into semis unless they get Porto maybe.

Before someone tells me that Pellegrini had great CL results with Villarreal and Malaga, yeah. Thats part the reason why he got hired maybe at Real and City too.
But the results that gonne get fired him are the ones he makes at Real and City.

And I have a lot bigger problem with how he went out vs Lyon at Real or how we went out last time against Barca or the way we will more than likely go out this season.

A team like us can lose to Barca its not surprise. But go out like PSG did 2 years ago. Barca-PSG 1-1, PSG-Barca 2-2. Barca goes trough on away goals.
PSG did their best.

I wouldnt say a bad word (maybe a few only) if we just went out vs Barca like that. They are a better side.

Now with 1-2 result we can go to them hope not to concede and score at least two or more. Their only loss at home this season was the Malaga one 0-1.
Other problem we clearly wont be able to play our usual PL style possession based football.
But who cares, Pelle will still send out similar formmation and personnel like we would actually dominate the game.

Seriously one of our biggest disadvantage in CL that what we do in PL and how we do it is simply not possible for us to transform that into CL games. Opponents here are clever. We rarely are. Roma away was a performance would say was clever. Where you could sense some gameplan, from start to finish.

I dont subscribe to this we have a very strong squad so we should be doing better in the CL. We have a very strong domestic squad with less than a handfull of players who are at CL level.

Occasionally, our squad has come together in key CL games (Roma & Bayern for example) and pulled one off, but the squad we have is not able to repeat this on a regular basis.

If we are to make inroads into Europe, this squad will not be the one that does it, and not wanting to start a BM riot, we should look long and hard at several key players (or fans favourites as I see them) and not be looking back at their past achievements. We are in the "here and now", and no player should have a free ride based on previous performances.

On Tues, Pellers put out a team that he thought would get us a positive result, and he was correct. The fact they didn't turn up for the first half allowed Barca the initiative. After no doubt being "re focussed" by the half time team talk, we stared to demonstrate that his team selection and formation could have gotten more out of that game.

It's not always the managers fault.

 

[PragueBlue]

I credit Pellehrini for trying something different, a plan that clearly had merit, unless we ignore the second half?

Some are ignoring it as "Barca had already won, so they slacked off", because it suits their argument.

Or because it's what happened.

 

[aguero93:20]

I credit Pellehrini for trying something different, a plan that clearly had merit, unless we ignore the second half?

Some are ignoring it as "Barca had already won, so they slacked off", because it suits their argument.

Or because it's what happened.

Right, they couldn't be arsed trying to put the tie to bed even though they've a potential title decider against Real a few days after the second leg.

 

[ZZmaestro]

It is a pity we don't have the squad to play a 4-3-3 formation, as i think it would be a better match for Peller's attacking philosophy.
That tactic just allows you to swarm your opponent's box continuously, just like Barca did to us.
We could have Dzeko upfront, with Kun at his left/right side.
However we are lacking that other pacey and tricky lateral player ( a shame that Jovetic can't play there ).
And Yaya is not mobile enough to hold the midfield on his own, like Biscuits does.
This is why we are forced to pack the midfield with 4 or 5 players.

Maybe next season, if we had a Pogba there, we could play like this :

Back 4

SN Pogba/Koke/Kondogbia DS

Reus/Lavezzi Dzeko/Bony Kun

 

[PragueBlue]

Some are ignoring it as "Barca had already won, so they slacked off", because it suits their argument.

Or because it's what happened.

Right, they couldn't be arsed trying to put the tie to bed even though they've a potential title decider against Real a few days after the second leg.

They switched off as they were so dominant in the first half and already 2-0 up. I'm not saying that they did it deliberately but it often happens when a team have had it so easy in the first half.

Of course if you really believe that they didn't slack off, then maybe we have stumbled across a team and formation that has the upper hand against Barcelona and should therefore stick with it for the away leg.

 

[BillyShears]

They switched off as they were so dominant in the first half and already 2-0 up. I'm not saying that they did it deliberately but it often happens when a team have had it so easy in the first half.

Well I'd say that whether it's deliberate or not is crucial to the point you and one or two other are trying to make. If Barca didn't deliberately switch off then the reality is that they did it because they have a weak mentality, thus making it a flaw in their own make up as a side. We exploited this well in the 2nd half, and probably should've exploited it further with the chances Dzeko fluffed. You don't switch off 45 minutes into a 180 minute tie with only two goals to sit on. Hell doing that in a 90 minute tie is piss poor mentality never mind a 180 minute tie. Momentum is a funny thing - and Hart's penalty save could yet to be a watershed moment in this particular tie.

In terms of the return leg at the Nou Camp, I hadn't realised that El Classico is a few days later. I'm really looking forward to it. I think we can do what it takes. We have goals in our side and in many respects this season we've been better away from home than at home. Having Toure back will help control the midfield and also give us a more direct route to catch their defenders pushed up too high. Defensively I remain to be convinced by our performances, but hopefully Pellegrini will see the error in playing Zaba at the Etihad and go with Sagna over there. I also think unless Vinny's performances improve in the next few weeks, Martin and Mangala should be given a chance.

 

[forevermancity]

Made this account because as longtime foreign supporter I had enough off Pellegrini. He made the same mistake 2 years on a row vs Barca now. He didn't realize we should play more defensive, as Mourinho does vs teams with faster passing & better technical abilities. At least Mou understands this is the way to beat them on organization, defence and the counter.

Problem sits deeper though. Ever since Pellegrini toke over I've seen a great defensive unit lose their confidence. The problem with Kompany & Zabs are not their skillset, its their confidence. It's rash challenges and running out of position because they lack confidence in the midfield, the lack of protection and organization. Put Kompany in the Chelsea team and soon everyone will consider him the best CB in the world again. When you look at the latest CL wins Chelsea/United it was based on a strong defensive unit and organization. It's the way to go for EPL teams.

Pellegrini has to go.

do you think he is worse than frank clark?

 

[aguero93:20]

Made this account because as longtime foreign supporter I had enough off Pellegrini. He made the same mistake 2 years on a row vs Barca now. He didn't realize we should play more defensive, as Mourinho does vs teams with faster passing & better technical abilities. At least Mou understands this is the way to beat them on organization, defence and the counter.

Problem sits deeper though. Ever since Pellegrini toke over I've seen a great defensive unit lose their confidence. The problem with Kompany & Zabs are not their skillset, its their confidence. It's rash challenges and running out of position because they lack confidence in the midfield, the lack of protection and organization. Put Kompany in the Chelsea team and soon everyone will consider him the best CB in the world again. When you look at the latest CL wins Chelsea/United it was based on a strong defensive unit and organization. It's the way to go for EPL teams.

Pellegrini has to go.

What kind of blue has red in their username? *sniff*