Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[Exeter Blue I am here]

"A manager in the Ferguson mould" ?? More rag propaganda. Ferguson won it twice but was in it how many times ? In fact, didn't Mourinho totally out manoeuvre him on at least one memorable occasion ? If Pelligrini has as many goes at it as Ferguson and only wins it twice, then I would say he's failed in Europe.

Good point.

I am a Pellegrini fan and one of those least critical of him but I do not view him as a tactical coach in the way that Mourinho is. I do think Pellegrini's tactical acumen is often underestimated though. However, I think Pellegrini is more driven by philosophy than tactics. He does not seem to go in for the tactical tinkering that some get lauded for but there could be plenty of tactical subtleties to what he does that by pass laymen such as me.

His basic philosophy is having a way he wants his team to play and devoting 80% of time on working at that rather than worrying about the specifics of the next opponent. As we have seen time and again, if the players do what he asks of them, they usually win. The big issues for me are:
(i) that I don't think enough of the players can deliver just what he wants consistently and that can only be rectified by changes in the squad;
(ii) too often players underperform and that may or may not be down to a failure on the part of the manager.

I now see tomorrow at Anfield as Pellegrini's biggest test yet in the job. You should not pin a manager's career all on one game but failure to win that could be the beginning of the end for him. I hope his players do not let him (or us) down. The odd's are always against us at Anfield and Liverpool have been resurgent lately in the league so Pellegrini could normally be forgiven for not chalking up a win there but not only are the three points absolutely vital if we are to retain a genuine chance of hanging onto our title, he needs to prove that he can get the tactics and team selection spot on; especially after failing to do so against Barca. This pair of games were always going to be major tests of his ability to learn from previous encounters.

Agree with all of that, but I fear the highlighted bit will eventually cost him his job. Arsene Wenger went nigh on a decade without winning a trophy, pretty much because he too put the lion's share of focus on how his team would play rather than the opposition, and Peller's naivety in thinking things will be different with City worries me. We all know what the shortcomings are in our current squad and they were ruthlessly exploited on Wednesday night. The players didn't help, as they clearly weren't doing what the manager wanted in that dire 1st half, but that was a real Hollywood game and we ended up looking like casting couch novices at times. That just about every City fan on the planet predicted exactly how it would unfold as soon as they saw the team sheets, should be a concern to our owners. Hopefully Pellegrini will get it right on Sunday, but he'll need to pay more heed to the opposition than he did against Barca to do so, cos Liverpool will come flying out of the blocks. Fingers crossed for a well organised performance.......

 

[OB1]

"A manager in the Ferguson mould" ?? More rag propaganda. Ferguson won it twice but was in it how many times ? In fact, didn't Mourinho totally out manoeuvre him on at least one memorable occasion ? If Pelligrini has as many goes at it as Ferguson and only wins it twice, then I would say he's failed in Europe.

Good point.

I am a Pellegrini fan and one of those least critical of him but I do not view him as a tactical coach in the way that Mourinho is. I do think Pellegrini's tactical acumen is often underestimated though. However, I think Pellegrini is more driven by philosophy than tactics. He does not seem to go in for the tactical tinkering that some get lauded for but there could be plenty of tactical subtleties to what he does that by pass laymen such as me.

His basic philosophy is having a way he wants his team to play and devoting 80% of time on working at that rather than worrying about the specifics of the next opponent. As we have seen time and again, if the players do what he asks of them, they usually win. The big issues for me are:
(i) that I don't think enough of the players can deliver just what he wants consistently and that can only be rectified by changes in the squad;
(ii) too often players underperform and that may or may not be down to a failure on the part of the manager.

I now see tomorrow at Anfield as Pellegrini's biggest test yet in the job. You should not pin a manager's career all on one game but failure to win that could be the beginning of the end for him. I hope his players do not let him (or us) down. The odd's are always against us at Anfield and Liverpool have been resurgent lately in the league so Pellegrini could normally be forgiven for not chalking up a win there but not only are the three points absolutely vital if we are to retain a genuine chance of hanging onto our title, he needs to prove that he can get the tactics and team selection spot on; especially after failing to do so against Barca. This pair of games were always going to be major tests of his ability to learn from previous encounters.

Agree with all of that, but I fear the highlighted bit will eventually cost him his job. Arsene Wenger went nigh on a decade without winning a trophy, pretty much because he too put the lion's share of focus on how his team would play rather than the opposition, and Peller's naivety in thinking things will be different with City worries me. We all know what the shortcomings are in our current squad and they were ruthlessly exploited on Wednesday night. The players didn't help, as they clearly weren't doing what the manager wanted in that dire 1st half, but that was a real Hollywood game and we ended up looking like casting couch novices at times. That just about every City fan on the planet predicted exactly how it would unfold as soon as they saw the team sheets, should be a concern to our owners. Hopefully Pellegrini will get it right on Sunday, but he'll need to pay more heed to the opposition than he did against Barca to do so, cos Liverpool will come flying out of the blocks. Fingers crossed for a well organised performance.......

We will need to be well organised, hardworking and aggressive. We will also need to be brave, but not stupid, in possession move the ball quickly and accurately when pressed whilst not taking any stupid risks in our own half. If in doubt, hit the ball long in Bony's direction or over the top for Aguero.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Roma, Roma, Roma, Roma, Roma, Roma, etc etc etc etc

Stoke at home - lost 1-0
West Ham away - lost 2-1
CSKA away - drew 2-2
CSKA home - lost 2-1
Burnley home - drew 2-2
Middlesborough home - lost 2-0
Hull home - drew 1-1

etc etc etc

Still including Burnley are we, despite our not playing 4-4-2 that day due to there being no fit forwards at the club? Whatever, your assertion was that Fernando was 'incapable' of playing in a 4-4-2. Roma clearly shows that given the right supporting cast, he is perfectly capable of playing in a 4-4-2.

Honestly mate, it doesn't matter how many times you say that we played 442 in Rome, it's never going to make it true.

I'll take your point about Burnley though.

 

[OB1]

Stoke at home - lost 1-0
West Ham away - lost 2-1
CSKA away - drew 2-2
CSKA home - lost 2-1
Burnley home - drew 2-2
Middlesborough home - lost 2-0
Hull home - drew 1-1

etc etc etc

Still including Burnley are we, despite our not playing 4-4-2 that day due to there being no fit forwards at the club? Whatever, your assertion was that Fernando was 'incapable' of playing in a 4-4-2. Roma clearly shows that given the right supporting cast, he is perfectly capable of playing in a 4-4-2.

Honestly mate, it doesn't matter how many times you say that we played 442 in Rome, it's never going to make it true.

I'll take your point about Burnley though.

The formation in Roma has four defenders, two central midfielders, two wide midfielders and two central attacking players who aren't quite level but are not touching and are not one behind the other. You can decide to call that whatever formation you want but all the evidence suggests your call will be wrong..

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Stoke at home - lost 1-0
West Ham away - lost 2-1
CSKA away - drew 2-2
CSKA home - lost 2-1
Burnley home - drew 2-2
Middlesborough home - lost 2-0
Hull home - drew 1-1

etc etc etc

Still including Burnley are we, despite our not playing 4-4-2 that day due to there being no fit forwards at the club? Whatever, your assertion was that Fernando was 'incapable' of playing in a 4-4-2. Roma clearly shows that given the right supporting cast, he is perfectly capable of playing in a 4-4-2.

Honestly mate, it doesn't matter how many times you say that we played 442 in Rome, it's never going to make it true.

I'll take your point about Burnley though.

As I said before, I'll stick with what the UEFA tells me, as they were the ones who took the time to actually chart the players movements. Given that the gap between Nasri and Dzeko is negligible, and the gap between Nasri and the Ferns is considerable, I'd say 4-4-2, or at worst 4-4-1-1, is clearly the best call for the system employed. Either way, Fernando was in the middle of a midfield 4, however much you may wish to pretend otherwise

 

[Rammy Blue]

Wrap it up whichever way we want, bottom line is Fernando is gash and it was an almighty mistake to employ him central with Jimmy against Barca.

I'm not writing the guy off quite yet, but fuck me, he's got some work to do.

 

[Damocles]

I'm writing him off. I'm usually patient with players and see Mangala coming on in leaps and bounds over the next few years but in a midfield two with a person expected to move forwards, Fernando absolutely cannot hold the midfield. He has neither the brain or the body to do this. Even in a 3 I'd argue that he needs help.

Fernando has that trait that means that I will never ever rate them as a player - I don't understand his game. There's a confusion between what he is being asked to do and what he can do and I can't find that middle ground.

He isn't a good enough player for City from what I've seen of him technically. He doesn't really possess great physicality and his football brain seems to have been left in Portugal. He is probably around the level of a reserve for Fernandinho and not a great one at that.

 

[hgblue]

I'm writing him off. I'm usually patient with players and see Mangala coming on in leaps and bounds over the next few years but in a midfield two with a person expected to move forwards, Fernando absolutely cannot hold the midfield. He has neither the brain or the body to do this. Even in a 3 I'd argue that he needs help.

Fernando has that trait that means that I will never ever rate them as a player - I don't understand his game. There's a confusion between what he is being asked to do and what he can do and I can't find that middle ground.

He isn't a good enough player for City from what I've seen of him technically. He doesn't really possess great physicality and his football brain seems to have been left in Portugal. He is probably around the level of a reserve for Fernandinho and not a great one at that.

Totally agree. Mangala will make his critics eat their words, but Fernando will never be an integral part of the team, because he isn't technically good enough. Whoever scouted him wants their arse kicking.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

"A manager in the Ferguson mould" ?? More rag propaganda. Ferguson won it twice but was in it how many times ? In fact, didn't Mourinho totally out manoeuvre him on at least one memorable occasion ? If Pelligrini has as many goes at it as Ferguson and only wins it twice, then I would say he's failed in Europe.

Good point.

I am a Pellegrini fan and one of those least critical of him but I do not view him as a tactical coach in the way that Mourinho is. I do think Pellegrini's tactical acumen is often underestimated though. However, I think Pellegrini is more driven by philosophy than tactics. He does not seem to go in for the tactical tinkering that some get lauded for but there could be plenty of tactical subtleties to what he does that by pass laymen such as me.

His basic philosophy is having a way he wants his team to play and devoting 80% of time on working at that rather than worrying about the specifics of the next opponent. As we have seen time and again, if the players do what he asks of them, they usually win. The big issues for me are:
(i) that I don't think enough of the players can deliver just what he wants consistently and that can only be rectified by changes in the squad;
(ii) too often players underperform and that may or may not be down to a failure on the part of the manager.

I now see tomorrow at Anfield as Pellegrini's biggest test yet in the job. You should not pin a manager's career all on one game but failure to win that could be the beginning of the end for him. I hope his players do not let him (or us) down. The odd's are always against us at Anfield and Liverpool have been resurgent lately in the league so Pellegrini could normally be forgiven for not chalking up a win there but not only are the three points absolutely vital if we are to retain a genuine chance of hanging onto our title, he needs to prove that he can get the tactics and team selection spot on; especially after failing to do so against Barca. This pair of games were always going to be major tests of his ability to learn from previous encounters.

Agree with all of that, but I fear the highlighted bit will eventually cost him his job. Arsene Wenger went nigh on a decade without winning a trophy, pretty much because he too put the lion's share of focus on how his team would play rather than the opposition, and Peller's naivety in thinking things will be different with City worries me. We all know what the shortcomings are in our current squad and they were ruthlessly exploited on Wednesday night. The players didn't help, as they clearly weren't doing what the manager wanted in that dire 1st half, but that was a real Hollywood game and we ended up looking like casting couch novices at times. That just about every City fan on the planet predicted exactly how it would unfold as soon as they saw the team sheets, should be a concern to our owners. Hopefully Pellegrini will get it right on Sunday, but he'll need to pay more heed to the opposition than he did against Barca to do so, cos Liverpool will come flying out of the blocks. Fingers crossed for a well organised performance.......

The highlighted bit is a lack of attention to detail.

You can only play like that if you have one of the best sides going and you have a side that dominates possession against everyone and when possession is lost you cynically foul or hound opponents for the ball back...we do none of that so that lack of attention to detail becomes a huge issue.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

I think that some of those disagreeing about the Barca game are probably closer than they realise.
United always expect to beat Barcelona. It’s in their DNA and even when humiliated they think they’ll win the next one.
At City there’s still an awe factor when it comes to those sort of games. Pellegrini might well be out of his depth, but so are the players and the fans. It certainly doesn’t help when every Messi touch (or Ronaldo when we played Real) is greeted with hundreds of flashbulbs around the stadium and everybody around you seems to be speaking in a foreign language.