Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[Lucky Toma]

Re: 5 reasons why I want Pellegrini gone

https://betting.betfair.com/football/premier-league/manchester-city/five-reasons-why-manuel-pellegrini-must-go-020315-718.html

Just written in Betfair the 5 reasons why I have finally relented and become a Pellegrini-outer.

Genuine question then, who do City employ and what do they then do if that person doesn't win the league and/or progress in the CL next season?

I'm not trying to argue that Pellegrini's the right guy because you've made your mind up already that he isn't. The question is how big a punt do you want the club to take next?

Because from where I'm sitting unless we're getting Pep it's going to be another manager who will see everyone turn on him at the first sign of trouble. The standard will also be set in terms of sacking managers as soon as they don't win a big trophy.

I've got no problem with you being angry about the things you've listed, I just think it's a bit premature and short sighted to be demanding Pellegrini's head without thinking about and addressing what we do next. The same players will be a year older next season.

Klopp, de Boer or Bilic.

Foe me personally - de Boer.

 

[its a Barm]

Re: 5 reasons why I want Pellegrini gone

https://betting.betfair.com/football/premier-league/manchester-city/five-reasons-why-manuel-pellegrini-must-go-020315-718.html

Just written in Betfair the 5 reasons why I have finally relented and become a Pellegrini-outer.

Genuine question then, who do City employ and what do they then do if that person doesn't win the league and/or progress in the CL next season?

I'm not trying to argue that Pellegrini's the right guy because you've made your mind up already that he isn't. The question is how big a punt do you want the club to take next?

Because from where I'm sitting unless we're getting Pep it's going to be another manager who will see everyone turn on him at the first sign of trouble. The standard will also be set in terms of sacking managers as soon as they don't win a big trophy.

I've got no problem with you being angry about the things you've listed, I just think it's a bit premature and short sighted to be demanding Pellegrini's head without thinking about and addressing what we do next. The same players will be a year older next season.

Klopp, de Boer or Bilic.

Foe me personally - de Boer.

Pierce is available.

 

[Shaelumstash]

To those that have supported him in the past and are now calling for his head, I'd like to pose the following question:

What is Pellegrini doing now that is different to what he has done since he arrived?

I'd argue he's doing exactly the same.

We're still playing a high line, we're still playing 442 in pretty much every game, we still don't make any tactical adjustments for the opposition, we still don't make any tactical adjustments if our available players don't suit playing in a certain system, we still don't make any adjustment if players are out of form, he's still a nice guy who gets on with the players, he still says nothing to the press, so why are people so outraged now by his management? What's changed?

I'd say it's two things:

1. Our top players aren't in top from.

Pellegrini's style works brilliantly when all our best players are available and in form. For most of last season we had three forwards scoring goals for fun, we had a centre midfielder who was unplayable at times, scoring 20 league goals. The quality of our players dragged us to 2 trophies. Was this because of the manager, or in spite of him?

For 6 weeks before his injury Aguero was arguably the best player in Europe. The rest of the team was diabolical at the time. Without those performances from Kun at the time, where would this team be now? 5th? 7th?

This manager has his preferred system - 442 high line, aggressive defending, and he shoehorns players in to it whether it suits them or not. He has done since he came to the club.

When we have periods where players are out of form - Kompany, Zabba, Fernando (being generous) what alterations does the manager make to the team to ensure we still get results?

The only time he made any adjustments to our style was when his hand was forced through us having no strikers. Out of necessity we had to be more solid, keep possession better. What lessons did he learn from that spell?

Being a good manager doesn't just mean getting results when the 11 best players in the league are all fit and in form. Any numpty can do that. Top managers adjust to defend against opposition's strengths, exploit their weaknesses, pick systems that suit the players who are available and protect players who are out of form.

Pellegrini sticks to the same no matter what, and relies on individual brilliance to drag us through. When that brilliance isn't happening, he has got absolutely no answers, no alternative, no plan B.

2. Teams have figured us out.

As many have pointed out, more and more teams have seemingly come up with a game plan of how to beat us. Alarmingly many far inferior teams have come to the Etihad and outwitted us tactically. Sheffield Wednesday, Newcastle, Middlesborough, Hull, Burnley, not to mention CSKA, Arsenal and the embarrassing Barcelona debacle, again.

The same thing happened last season with Wigan and Bayern, did the manager learn any lessons from these games? Has he made any adjustments?

My biggest criticism of the "Hollistic" approach, and Pellegrini's style was that it was too inflexible, too predictable and gives our opponents an advantage in their preparation. People on here told me that this would be a great strengths of ours, we shouldn't worry about other teams, let them worry about us.

Many of those same posters are now calling for Pellegrini's head, so I'd be interested to know if their opinion on our strategy has also changed?

Pellegrini is doing nothing this season that he didn't do last season.

This is partially true, but Pellegrini's system responded wonderfully to the problems we faced under Mancini. Most seem to have forgotten this by now, but we had been found out then as well, as teams just parked the bus against us and knew we would struggle to get a goal. Our defense, as a result, looked phenomenal, but we lacked the ability to unlock teams consistently. MP shows up and we essentially double down on attack, push our full backs further forward, and as a result the bus park stops working. On the whole, this helps us and we storm through the league last season, unlocking defenses. Eventually, teams adjust to the new normal from us, and our commitment to attack, which largely broke the bus parking problem, now becomes a new exploitable weakness that we've seen teams adapt to. We actually don't see many teams show up and play 11 behind the ball any longer -- they know that's suicidal at this point and that they've got a far better chance approaching us in other ways.

So yes, Manuel hasn't changed much, but what has changed is that what he brought was the recipe we needed. I think we're now in need of another response, and either Manuel himself has to make it, or we'll have to find another manager who can.

Great reply, and I agree with every word of it.

While I agree that Mancini could have done with knowing when to take risks and be more attacking, surely the reverse is also true that Pellegrini could do with learning when it's important to be solid? The same mistakes repeated twice in a week against quality in form opposition is just carless.

Also Pellegrini's in-game management is astonishingly bad. I've been a huge critic of Fernando and Milner in central midfield, but it was as clear as day that we needed some solidity in the middle during the second half. The obvious change would have been to bring Dzeko off for Milner, put him alongside Dinho and push Yaya up to number 10. The extra body, the extra physicality would have prevented Liverpool from taking the piss. It's certainly what Mancini would have done.

Instead he brought Milner on wide, which was just baffling. The threat was down the middle, and by moving Silva central, you are not bringing any more solidity whatsoever, and Milner was defending wide where there was little threat. I just don't know sometimes if Pellegrini makes these decisions based on stubborness or incompetence.

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Simone or pep for me! Pellers will get my full support for how ever long he is there! But my opinion won't change now he needs to be replaced in the summer no doubt! Yesterday was a bad showing by him team selection, changes, formation, style of play, no plan b and a reluctance to change anything when the obvious is staring you in the face! Also there's no way he did his homework on Liverpool! I'm wondering if he knows something we don't like he's going to be replaced in the summer by pep who is reluctant to sign a new deal at bayern? Would be interesting to hear bayern mans view's on this if he's on?

 

[Shaelumstash]

To those that have supported him in the past and are now calling for his head, I'd like to pose the following question:

What is Pellegrini doing now that is different to what he has done since he arrived?

I'd argue he's doing exactly the same.

We're still playing a high line, we're still playing 442 in pretty much every game, we still don't make any tactical adjustments for the opposition, we still don't make any tactical adjustments if our available players don't suit playing in a certain system, we still don't make any adjustment if players are out of form, he's still a nice guy who gets on with the players, he still says nothing to the press, so why are people so outraged now by his management? What's changed?

I'd say it's two things:

1. Our top players aren't in top from.

Pellegrini's style works brilliantly when all our best players are available and in form. For most of last season we had three forwards scoring goals for fun, we had a centre midfielder who was unplayable at times, scoring 20 league goals. The quality of our players dragged us to 2 trophies. Was this because of the manager, or in spite of him?

For 6 weeks before his injury Aguero was arguably the best player in Europe. The rest of the team was diabolical at the time. Without those performances from Kun at the time, where would this team be now? 5th? 7th?

This manager has his preferred system - 442 high line, aggressive defending, and he shoehorns players in to it whether it suits them or not. He has done since he came to the club.

When we have periods where players are out of form - Kompany, Zabba, Fernando (being generous) what alterations does the manager make to the team to ensure we still get results?

The only time he made any adjustments to our style was when his hand was forced through us having no strikers. Out of necessity we had to be more solid, keep possession better. What lessons did he learn from that spell?

Being a good manager doesn't just mean getting results when the 11 best players in the league are all fit and in form. Any numpty can do that. Top managers adjust to defend against opposition's strengths, exploit their weaknesses, pick systems that suit the players who are available and protect players who are out of form.

Pellegrini sticks to the same no matter what, and relies on individual brilliance to drag us through. When that brilliance isn't happening, he has got absolutely no answers, no alternative, no plan B.

2. Teams have figured us out.

As many have pointed out, more and more teams have seemingly come up with a game plan of how to beat us. Alarmingly many far inferior teams have come to the Etihad and outwitted us tactically. Sheffield Wednesday, Newcastle, Middlesborough, Hull, Burnley, not to mention CSKA, Arsenal and the embarrassing Barcelona debacle, again.

The same thing happened last season with Wigan and Bayern, did the manager learn any lessons from these games? Has he made any adjustments?

My biggest criticism of the "Hollistic" approach, and Pellegrini's style was that it was too inflexible, too predictable and gives our opponents an advantage in their preparation. People on here told me that this would be a great strengths of ours, we shouldn't worry about other teams, let them worry about us.

Many of those same posters are now calling for Pellegrini's head, so I'd be interested to know if their opinion on our strategy has also changed?

Pellegrini is doing nothing this season that he didn't do last season.

Yes but we've been found out now. That's the big difference. And worse still it's an open secret. Everybody knows how to hurt us.

The Boro defeat was when I stopped being worried and instead became deeply concerned. 90% of their victory that day was not through out-playing us or good fortune - it was from executing a rather simple gameplan.

Pellegrini is a busted flush.

I totally agree mate, really enjoyed your piece on Bet365 by the way, agreed with every word.

You're right that we've been figured out, but the point I'm making is that it was inevitable that was going to happen. That's the problem with Pellegrini's, and the "Hollistic" approach.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

There is a certain amount of groundhog day about all of this

Win a title(just) when we have the best squad, embarrass ourselves in europe then have a pretty shit following season

We then argue about which of the following is to blame

1 The manager

2 The players

3 The system

4 The DOF

If it is a mixture of all four which is likely then our owner has a lot of changes to make, the sooner we get rid of txiki and manuel the better, hopefully both will be gone in the summer

But they are the one's who are not on the same page. Get rid of one of them and bring someone in that the other can work with. When your manager and your DoF have very different philosophies on tactics and style then you are going to see exactly what we are seeing right now. The Players and System are secondary if the manager and DoF are not in sync.

 

[emiratblu]

Let me add a simplistic but relevant point to this debate
Our fist half of the season was somewhat camouflaged by the Lampard factor, which in itself was an unexpected bonus certainly not one planned by Pellegrini
This you could argue put us in a little bit of a false position and papered over quite a few cracks
Fast forward to the second half and for whatever reason there is no Lampard factor anymore and there is no supersub
I do wonder whether he is being held back now for fear of injury and pissing of the NYCC project??
For me this is certainly part of the rationale behind why we are in the position we are in today

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Would you really give this manager the money to rejuvenate the squad?

Its not just the manager that spends the money, this is why we have a DoF model, when will people understand this ?

Caballero?

 

[welsh_andy]

Re: 5 reasons why I want Pellegrini gone

Genuine question then, who do City employ and what do they then do if that person doesn't win the league and/or progress in the CL next season?

I'm not trying to argue that Pellegrini's the right guy because you've made your mind up already that he isn't. The question is how big a punt do you want the club to take next?

Because from where I'm sitting unless we're getting Pep it's going to be another manager who will see everyone turn on him at the first sign of trouble. The standard will also be set in terms of sacking managers as soon as they don't win a big trophy.

I've got no problem with you being angry about the things you've listed, I just think it's a bit premature and short sighted to be demanding Pellegrini's head without thinking about and addressing what we do next. The same players will be a year older next season.

Klopp, de Boer or Bilic.

Foe me personally - de Boer.

Pierce is available.

good call, he has a big gun too, so im told

 

[hilts]

Chelsea managed to bag themselves a world class manager, 3 world class players and actually make money on these transfers

We have a poor manager, bought no world class players and spent a fair bit of money

Those in charge need a rethink

We need a new manager and to sell some of our assets otherwise next season will be worse