Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

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cookster said:
The number of times yesterday and Tuesday it took ONE pass to get to our back four was criminal.
No wonder we can't defend. There is zero protection.

yeah that's been a feature of the season, i remember talking about this about 5 games in, why was it so easy for opposition defenders to give it to a midfielder who then advanced to within 25 yards of goal - at the time we thought it was early season teething but by xmas it hadnt gone away, it still hasn't.

The season has sputtered and started and tailed off and generally being frustrating but the more i think about games/opportunities lost, the more i think it has been lost at centre mid.
 
Damocles said:
i8rags said:
Where's my post gone?

flb said:
Ditto, things are getting heated perhaps?

Sorry, was going to put a note in thread but got distracted dealing with another issue.

Pulled a series of posts due to a report, but didn't want to leave the thread in the Mod Forum for an extended period as people seem to be having a conversation within it. Pulled all posts after a certain point and stuck it back so you can carry on the conversation but we can make a decision on the modding. Nothing necessarily that were anything wrong with your posts, baby/bathwater and all that.
No dramas
 
Damocles said:
hilts said:
Mister Appointment said:
The differences between Mancini's situation and Pellegrini's couldn't be more stark. Mancini's position was in every way shape and form untenable and only then did the club act and sack him. He literally had to go to war with the DoF, the chief executive, and the club captain, before he was dispensed with.

Pellegrini still retains the support of the dressing room and I suspect that his title win last season coupled with his ability to operate within the structure set up without starting fires every week, means that this summer the only way the club will countenance him leaving will be for one of Guardiola or Klopp.

So you are saying we are ditherers and Mp keeps his job because he doesn't rock the boat and no one else in the world can manage us apart from pep and klopp

seems like the perfect recipe for success

One man's ditherance is another man's patience.

Remember when we didn't demand the manager's head if we didn't win a game and the idea of a manager only getting 18 months was absolutely ridiculous?

Those were the days. Barely 5 years ago.

The trouble is the stakes are somewhat different than they were pre Sheikh Mansour. We could extol the virtue of patience then (relatively) safe in the knowledge that, barring an absolute Alan Ball of a manager, we wouldn't go up or down and we'd be back for another bite of the cherry the following season.

And this goes well beyond not winning 'a game'. It's been a gradual build up. It's Britain doing nothing as Hitler annexed the Sudetenland and then went ahead with the Anschluss, before the straw of the invasion of Poland broke the camel's back; it's Capitol records in the US rejecting the Beatles first 4 UK singles releases, before 'I wanna hold your hand' burst the dam. Burnley, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Arsenal, Middlesbrough, Hull and Barcelona all led up to Liverpool, and the fact that so many erstwhile Pellegrini supporters (for want of a better term) are suddenly prepared to advocate his removal is testament to that. Either we've all taken leave of our senses or there's a very serious issue to be had.

Up until recently there've been chronic injury problems, post World Cup hangovers, the AFCON, unjustified press criticism and bum European draws to distract us from clear analysis. Our wagons were in a circle and we were peering out between the wheel spokes for our enemies. Everyone now though is fit and well, we've added a £25m centre forward to the mix, but our form has fallen off a cliff and we are suddenly all looking inwards. Inwards to childlike tactical philosophies, to disastrous team selections, to systems that don't suit particular players and particular players that don't suit particular systems, to a midfield that is all over the place defensively, to defenders who played in World Cup finals making errors that would embarrass an U11's team, to performances against top teams (bar Chelsea) that have bordered on the excruciating, to players that don't look fit and to others that don't look sufficiently interested,and so on and so on.

Not everything is Pellegrini's fault obviously. FFP has had the intended effect, far greater than the 'pinch' Khaldoon intimated IMO, and several of our buys have been poor, not just in terms of the actual footballing ability of the individuals concerned, but also in terms of their suitability for the chosen philosophy. The problem the club has now though is that whilst incomes are healthy, the global fanbase is still in its infancy, the current squad is ageing and needs overhauling, and several of our rivals are improving as rapidly as we seem to be floundering. Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool are all in sufficiently good form to suggest that one more fuck up against either a Leicester or a Burnley, and we will be in real danger of not finishing in the top 4, and if that particular doomsday scenario comes true, then our long term plans will take one huge fucking dent. With Ya Ya nearly 32 and Spanish Dave just turned 30, our next couple of forays into the transfer market need to be for top top quality players. Whether we would still be able to get them without Chimps League football to offer and without the perceived prestige of the rags, the Arse or the dippers, is another matter.
With that as a potential backdrop then, it's no wonder many people are now casting an anxious eye over a manager, who's just picked a 4 man midfield, including Ya Ya Toure, whose defensive contribution is nil, to face up to an extremely mobile, high pressing quintet, and without any natural width or pace to stretch the opposition's 3 man defence, and whose response to the shambles was to bring on James Milner and instead of deploying him in front of our beleaguered centre halves, plonk him out on the left flank. And after the match, whose keenest observation was that we 'need to play better' in future. Everything about Sunday was an utter fucking shambles, and right now I just can't see a way forward with a manager making so many frankly dreadful calls.
 
If performances and results carry on the players will soon turn on Pellegrini, regardless of how much of a nice guy he is, in fact it wouldn't surprise me see a few already turning against him.

I reckon Vinny is getting frustrated with the extreme rotation of the defence causing it to lack consistency and understanding, also the lack of protection that is not being put in front of him.
 
shemnel said:
cookster said:
The number of times yesterday and Tuesday it took ONE pass to get to our back four was criminal.
No wonder we can't defend. There is zero protection.

yeah that's been a feature of the season, i remember talking about this about 5 games in, why was it so easy for opposition defenders to give it to a midfielder who then advanced to within 25 yards of goal - at the time we thought it was early season teething but by xmas it hadnt gone away, it still hasn't.

The season has sputtered and started and tailed off and generally being frustrating but the more i think about games/opportunities lost, the more i think it has been lost at centre mid.

It's pissed me off all season how hard we'be had to work in most games all season to score, only to concede a soft goal when under almost no pressure.

I surrender a lot of the possession stats to have am interceptor/ball winner in midfield.
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
Damocles said:
hilts said:
So you are saying we are ditherers and Mp keeps his job because he doesn't rock the boat and no one else in the world can manage us apart from pep and klopp

seems like the perfect recipe for success

One man's ditherance is another man's patience.

Remember when we didn't demand the manager's head if we didn't win a game and the idea of a manager only getting 18 months was absolutely ridiculous?

Those were the days. Barely 5 years ago.

The trouble is the stakes are somewhat different than they were pre Sheikh Mansour. We could extol the virtue of patience then (relatively) safe in the knowledge that, barring an absolute Alan Ball of a manager, we wouldn't go up or down and we'd be back for another bite of the cherry the following season.

And this goes well beyond not winning 'a game'. It's been a gradual build up. It's Britain doing nothing as Hitler annexed the Sudetenland and then went ahead with the Anschluss, before the straw of the invasion of Poland broke the camel's back; it's Capitol records in the US rejecting the Beatles first 4 UK singles releases, before 'I wanna hold your hand' burst the dam. Burnley, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Arsenal, Middlesbrough, Hull and Barcelona all led up to Liverpool, and the fact that so many erstwhile Pellegrini supporters (for want of a better term) are suddenly prepared to advocate his removal is testament to that. Either we've all taken leave of our senses or there's a very serious issue to be had.

Up until recently there've been chronic injury problems, post World Cup hangovers, the AFCON, unjustified press criticism and bum European draws to distract us from clear analysis. Our wagons were in a circle and we were peering out between the wheel spokes for our enemies. Everyone now though is fit and well, we've added a £25m centre forward to the mix, but our form has fallen off a cliff and we are suddenly all looking inwards. Inwards to childlike tactical philosophies, to disastrous team selections, to systems that don't suit particular players and particular players that don't suit particular systems, to a midfield that is all over the place defensively, to defenders who played in World Cup finals making errors that would embarrass an U11's team, to performances against top teams (bar Chelsea) that have bordered on the excruciating, to players that don't look fit and to others that don't look sufficiently interested,and so on and so on.

Not everything is Pellegrini's fault obviously. FFP has had the intended effect, far greater than the 'pinch' Khaldoon intimated IMO, and several of our buys have been poor, not just in terms of the actual footballing ability of the individuals concerned, but also in terms of their suitability for the chosen philosophy. The problem the club has now though is that whilst incomes are healthy, the global fanbase is still in its infancy, the current squad is ageing and needs overhauling, and several of our rivals are improving as rapidly as we seem to be floundering. Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool are all in sufficiently good form to suggest that one more fuck up against either a Leicester or a Burnley, and we will be in real danger of not finishing in the top 4, and if that particular doomsday scenario comes true, then our long term plans will take one huge fucking dent. With Ya Ya nearly 32 and Spanish Dave just turned 30, our next couple of forays into the transfer market need to be for top top quality players. Whether we would still be able to get them without Chimps League football to offer and without the perceived prestige of the rags, the Arse or the dippers, is another matter.
With that as a potential backdrop then, it's no wonder many people are now casting an anxious eye over a manager, who's just picked a 4 man midfield, including Ya Ya Toure, whose defensive contribution is nil, to face up to an extremely mobile, high pressing quintet, and without any natural width or pace to stretch the opposition's 3 man defence, and whose response was to bring on James Milner and instead of deploying him in front of our beleaguered centre halves, plonked him out on the left flank. Everything about Sunday was an utter fucking shambles, and right now I just can't see a way forward with a manager making so many frankly dreadful calls.
100% right Exeter Blue .
When I first saw the team news for us yesterday ,I knew we would lose .
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
Damocles said:
hilts said:
So you are saying we are ditherers and Mp keeps his job because he doesn't rock the boat and no one else in the world can manage us apart from pep and klopp

seems like the perfect recipe for success

One man's ditherance is another man's patience.

Remember when we didn't demand the manager's head if we didn't win a game and the idea of a manager only getting 18 months was absolutely ridiculous?

Those were the days. Barely 5 years ago.

The trouble is the stakes are somewhat different than they were pre Sheikh Mansour. We could extol the virtue of patience then (relatively) safe in the knowledge that, barring an absolute Alan Ball of a manager, we wouldn't go up or down and we'd be back for another bite of the cherry the following season.

And this goes well beyond not winning 'a game'. It's been a gradual build up. It's Britain doing nothing as Hitler annexed the Sudetenland and then went ahead with the Anschluss, before the straw of the invasion of Poland broke the camel's back; it's Capitol records in the US rejecting the Beatles first 4 UK singles releases, before 'I wanna hold your hand' burst the dam. Burnley, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Arsenal, Middlesbrough, Hull and Barcelona all led up to Liverpool, and the fact that so many erstwhile Pellegrini supporters (for want of a better term) are suddenly prepared to advocate his removal is testament to that. Either we've all taken leave of our senses or there's a very serious issue to be had.

Up until recently there've been chronic injury problems, post World Cup hangovers, the AFCON, unjustified press criticism and bum European draws to distract us from clear analysis. Our wagons were in a circle and we were peering out between the wheel spokes for our enemies. Everyone now though is fit and well, we've added a £25m centre forward to the mix, but our form has fallen off a cliff and we are suddenly all looking inwards. Inwards to childlike tactical philosophies, to disastrous team selections, to systems that don't suit particular players and particular players that don't suit particular systems, to a midfield that is all over the place defensively, to defenders who played in World Cup finals making errors that would embarrass an U11's team, to performances against top teams (bar Chelsea) that have bordered on the excruciating, to players that don't look fit and to others that don't look sufficiently interested,and so on and so on.

Not everything is Pellegrini's fault obviously. FFP has had the intended effect, far greater than the 'pinch' Khaldoon intimated IMO, and several of our buys have been poor, not just in terms of the actual footballing ability of the individuals concerned, but also in terms of their suitability for the chosen philosophy. The problem the club has now though is that whilst incomes are healthy, the global fanbase is still in its infancy, the current squad is ageing and needs overhauling, and several of our rivals are improving as rapidly as we seem to be floundering. Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool are all in sufficiently good form to suggest that one more fuck up against either a Leicester or a Burnley, and we will be in real danger of not finishing in the top 4, and if that particular doomsday scenario comes true, then our long term plans will take one huge fucking dent. With Ya Ya nearly 32 and Spanish Dave just turned 30, our next couple of forays into the transfer market need to be for top top quality players. Whether we would still be able to get them without Chimps League football to offer and without the perceived prestige of the rags, the Arse or the dippers, is another matter.
With that as a potential backdrop then, it's no wonder many people are now casting an anxious eye over a manager, who's just picked a 4 man midfield, including Ya Ya Toure, whose defensive contribution is nil, to face up to an extremely mobile, high pressing quintet, and without any natural width or pace to stretch the opposition's 3 man defence, and whose response was to bring on James Milner and instead of deploying him in front of our beleaguered centre halves, plonked him out on the left flank. Everything about Sunday was an utter fucking shambles, and right now I just can't see a way forward with a manager making so many frankly dreadful calls.


Just about sums it up, it is worrying it really is
 
sam-caddick said:
If performances and results carry on the players will soon turn on Pellegrini, regardless of how much of a nice guy he is, in fact it wouldn't surprise me see a few already turning against him.

I reckon Vinny is getting frustrated with the extreme rotation of the defence causing it to lack consistency and understanding, also the lack of protection that is not being put in front of him.

think you are not far wrong there.
 
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