Mark Clattenburg

[Paladin]

That's a really interesting post. Being an experienced linesman yourself, what did you make of the three offside decisions in the second half against Spurs?

I was watching it on SkyGo on my iPad, and slightly distracted with other family circumstances. At the time of viewing, I thought all three were very close. Sky did a freeze frame for one of them, and this showed Aguero as just offside. I didn't see them freeze the action for the other two though, but I had a general feeling of injustice. I have since seen on this thread, a screen shot of one of the decisions where Aguero is onside, fractionally after the ball was played to him, so that evens it up. I haven't seen anything conclusive on the third decision though.

But it was very strange to rule three marginal decisions in quick succession all with the same outcome. Fair play to the linesman if they were all proved to be correct decisions, but as has been seen subsequently, they weren't all correct. You also get a feel for the accuracy of the decision from the reaction of the crowd behind the linesman. Home fans become very animated after an incorrect decision, and they were clearly frustrated at this linesman. This to me, suggests he was making mistakes.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I was watching it on SkyGo on my iPad, and slightly distracted with other family circumstances. At the time of viewing, I thought all three were very close. Sky did a freeze frame for one of them, and this showed Aguero as just offside. I didn't see them freeze the action for the other two though, but I had a general feeling of injustice. I have since seen on this thread, a screen shot of one of the decisions where Aguero is onside, fractionally after the ball was played to him, so that evens it up. I haven't seen anything conclusive on the third decision though.

But it was very strange to rule three marginal decisions in quick succession all with the same outcome. Fair play to the linesman if they were all proved to be correct decisions, but as has been seen subsequently, they weren't all correct. You also get a feel for the accuracy of the decision from the reaction of the crowd behind the linesman. Home fans become very animated after an incorrect decision, and they were clearly frustrated at this linesman. This to me, suggests he was making mistakes.

I was at the game very close to all three decisions. My conclusion after freeze framing all of them was: first, Aguero marginally offside, second and most obvious chance, on side (not marginal) second onside (marginal). The point though, is I thought the linesman had to be sure before he blew. Even if his judgement was supernatural for the first as it was so marginal, he couldn't have seen the other two because they were both onside. The fact he blew for all three very quickly made me extremely suspicious. Still very angry about the way the game was officiated.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I was at the game very close to all three decisions. My conclusion after freeze framing all of them was: first, Aguero marginally offside, second and most obvious chance, on side (not marginal) second onside (marginal). The point though, is I thought the linesman had to be sure before he blew. Even if his judgement was supernatural for the first as it was so marginal, he couldn't have seen the other two because they were both onside. The fact he blew for all three very quickly made me extremely suspicious. Still very angry about the way the game was officiated.

The combo of Crappenberg and his lino acolytes make me feel that they are gonna be ultra-decisive and not in our favour. The speed with which the flag went up for Aguero compares most markedly when we FOC's in CBL3 are screaming for the lino below us to flag the most obvious offside, and who waits for so long that I think he isn't giving it!

The speed with which Crapps made his penalty decision and the immediate fixing of a poker face led me to think certain thoughts that have been well written on this thread already!!

 

[Paladin]

The combo of Crappenberg and his lino acolytes make me feel that they are gonna be ultra-decisive and not in our favour. The speed with which the flag went up for Aguero compares most markedly when we FOC's in CBL3 are screaming for the lino below us to flag the most obvious offside, and who waits for so long that I think he isn't giving it!

The speed with which Crapps made his penalty decision and the immediate fixing of a poker face led me to think certain thoughts that have been well written on this thread already!!

I've not officiated at anything like that level for many years now, and in my day I only had the occasional higher profile game (fourth official D2, linesman at Macc Town for FA Cup preliminary round, Central League etc.) So I am not familiar with the recent phenomenon of allowing play to continue for a few seconds before a linesman raises his flag. I see it as giving the attacking team false hope, before cruelly snatching it back from them. In my day, we would flag an offside, and if play developed in a certain way, the referee would wave down the flag and continue the game.

I agree that the three offsides and the penalty decision were given very quickly, almost as if they were a pre-determined outcome to certain events. So, given the three offside goals in the game at WHL, Clattenburg might have instructed, "OK, let's not have any more offside goals today. If there is anything remotely marginal, I want an immediate flag from you." Hence no possibility of another controversial offside goal, but plenty of scope for incorrect offside decisions being made.

This of course is contrary to FA directives, which I understand are to err on the side of the attacking team, so the marginals should not be flagged.

The worst decision of the two games against Spurs was obviously the penalty given to Spurs. But the second worst decision was Kane's goal at WHL, which was scored following their free kick. As it was from a free kick, there is absolutely no excuse for the linesman to get that wrong. He can see the kicker running up to take the free kick, and he only has to glance along the line of defence to see two players clearly offside by some distance at the point the ball was kicked. One of them, Kane, then scores from the rebound. This has gone relatively unnoticed (the focus has been on other bad decisions). But this was a linesman failing to identify an offside from the easiest possible set of circumstances. It is hard to believe this was a genuine mistake by that official.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I've not officiated at anything like that level for many years now, and in my day I only had the occasional higher profile game (fourth official D2, linesman at Macc Town for FA Cup preliminary round, Central League etc.) So I am not familiar with the recent phenomenon of allowing play to continue for a few seconds before a linesman raises his flag. I see it as giving the attacking team false hope, before cruelly snatching it back from them. In my day, we would flag an offside, and if play developed in a certain way, the referee would wave down the flag and continue the game.

I agree that the three offsides and the penalty decision were given very quickly, almost as if they were a pre-determined outcome to certain events. So, given the three offside goals in the game at WHL, Clattenburg might have instructed, "OK, let's not have any more offside goals today. If there is anything remotely marginal, I want an immediate flag from you." Hence no possibility of another controversial offside goal, but plenty of scope for incorrect offside decisions being made.

This of course is contrary to FA directives, which I understand are to err on the side of the attacking team, so the marginals should not be flagged.

The worst decision of the two games against Spurs was obviously the penalty given to Spurs. But the second worst decision was Kane's goal at WHL, which was scored following their free kick. As it was from a free kick, there is absolutely no excuse for the linesman to get that wrong. He can see the kicker running up to take the free kick, and he only has to glance along the line of defence to see two players clearly offside by some distance at the point the ball was kicked. One of them, Kane, then scores from the rebound. This has gone relatively unnoticed (the focus has been on other bad decisions). But this was a linesman failing to identify an offside from the easiest possible set of circumstances. It is hard to believe this was a genuine mistake by that official.

These 'clear cut' decisions are the ones that make folk wonder the most. It seems obvious to all and sundry bar the lino that a player is in an offside position. It's not as thought the offsides are coming at the rate of ten a minute. When I did a bit of lining it was a simple situation - eye and brain engage and the rest is pretty automatic! It makes me wonder endlessly what aspect of the brain messages inside a linos head are getting priority!

The Kyle Walker offside at The Lane beggars belief, and the obvious question should be raised with the lino at the end of the half - What the fuck were you looking at when there is an attacking player three yards offside, right under yer fuckin' nose?

 

[taleofbluehalves]

These 'clear cut' decisions are the ones that make folk wonder the most. It seems obvious to all and sundry bar the lino that a player is in an offside position. It's not as thought the offsides are coming at the rate of ten a minute. When I did a bit of lining it was a simple situation - eye and brain engage and the rest is pretty automatic! It makes me wonder endlessly what aspect of the brain messages inside a linos head are getting priority!

The Kyle Walker offside at The Lane beggars belief, and the obvious question should be raised with the lino at the end of the half - What the fuck were you looking at when there is an attacking player three yards offside, right under yer fuckin' nose?

It was right in front of him. How could he miss it??

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

It was right in front of him. How could he miss it??

Perhaps he thought it was 'marginal' and gave the attacker the benefit of the doubt!! Anything else is either gross incompetence or corruption.

 

[taleofbluehalves]

Perhaps he thought it was 'marginal' and gave the attacker the benefit of the doubt!! Anything else is either gross incompetence or corruption.

Joke really about 3ft off!! Still evens out in the end..... Oh hang on a minute...

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Joke really about 3ft off!! Still evens out in the end..... Oh hang on a minute...

This'll be what Crappenberg thought and the instructions to his linos - "We gave Haringay Hotspurs a dodgy goal from a clear offside at The Lane. We better even things up a bit. I know - I'll give 'Arry a dodgy pen if I get the chance. Sterling looks a likely fall guy. Let's see if I can squeeze a 'handball' out of him!"

 

[Paladin]

Perhaps he thought it was 'marginal' and gave the attacker the benefit of the doubt!! Anything else is either gross incompetence or corruption.

Nobody knows what goes on regarding referees instructions to linesmen. If they are giving their own interpretation of how they want offsides to be interpreted, this is wrong. To instruct a linesman not to allow any offside goals will cause him to favour the defending team, and we end up with what happened on Sunday. (I am not suggesting this happened by the way, only raising it as a possibility). If the referee allowed the linesmen to make their own objective decisions about offsides, then mistakes would even themselves out, instead of the same team always being favoured. On Saturday, had the linesman made an honest mistake on three occasions, we would have had two offsides against Aguero, and one fairly free run on goal. The outcome of the game could have been totally different.