Memorial for Lee Rigby

[Damocles]

Not sure I understand why asking for a memorial is attempting to be a political device.

Because people want a reminder of the event and not the man. This is my problem with it, a large majority of the people signing it aren't really arsed about Lee Rigby as a person but instead want to commemorate a religious murder. This thread is a pretty standard evidence of that as are the comments on the thing itself.

 

[Helmet Cole]

wow!
Seeing as its been turned into a debate,AND seeing as yet ANOTHER London School has fed ISIS with another 5 rapist monsters with the same ideology as Lee Rigby's murderers shouldn't a memorial be placed infront of every School/College & Uni in London.
Surely its good that the London community comes together & shows contempt for the terrorist atrocities by isis supporters and the like.
A suitable memorial would be apt.

Surely then it is not a memorial, but a 'two fingers' to the (exremist) muslim community? I understand your sentiments, but that's not what a memorial is for. It would be about as helpful as putting a Lord Mountbatten statue outside every catholic church in Ireland.

 

[BimboBob]

Not sure I understand why asking for a memorial is attempting to be a political device.

Because people want a reminder of the event and not the man. This is my problem with it, a large majority of the people signing it aren't really arsed about Lee Rigby as a person but instead want to commemorate a religious murder. This thread is a pretty standard evidence of that as are the comments on the thing itself.

I think that's a bit cynical mate, and I would suggest that it is still not political. If people want to commemorate the event then what's the problem? The event, however you personally view it, was a religious murder and an attack on Britain and it's armed forces. They said as much. You can see why people want this especially ones close to the armed forces.

We treat our armed forces with something bordering on distaste in this country. I've just come back from the States where things are 100% different. Even if they don't agree with their countries policies they still support the troops.

 

[Damocles]

Not sure I understand why asking for a memorial is attempting to be a political device.

Because people want a reminder of the event and not the man. This is my problem with it, a large majority of the people signing it aren't really arsed about Lee Rigby as a person but instead want to commemorate a religious murder. This thread is a pretty standard evidence of that as are the comments on the thing itself.

I think that's a bit cynical mate, and I would suggest that it is still not political. If people want to commemorate the event then what's the problem? The event, however you personally view it, was a religious murder and an attack on Britain and it's armed forces. They said as much. You can see why people want this especially ones close to the armed forces.

We treat our armed forces with something bordering on distaste in this country. I've just come back from the States where things are 100% different. Even if they don't agree with their countries policies they still support the troops.

No, they hero worship their troops which is cringeworthy and quite frightening as well. We treat them as normal people which is what they are. But that's besides the point.

The point is that commemorating a racial or religious murder of a single person in terms of a memorial is an entirely unworkable thing to do and more importantly, the exact opposite thing of what we should do. We shouldn't fetishise grief and murder, we should remember it as the tragedy it was and move on. The Islamists want you to remember it, they want you to think about it every single day and be bound by it, altering all of your decision making processes. They want you to remember it as something horrific and scary and worth noting as a special event in our history.

But it wasn't. It was a bunch of maniacs murdering people.

I do feel sometimes that people don't really understand what the point of terrorism is nor what they are trying to achieve.

 

[BimboBob]

So it wasn't horrific or scary? Two men, known to security forces, can run down and hack an off duty soldier to death whilst the whole event is captured on camera and shared around the world?

I'd like to know what you find horrific.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Not sure I understand why asking for a memorial is attempting to be a political device.

Because people want a reminder of the event and not the man. This is my problem with it, a large majority of the people signing it aren't really arsed about Lee Rigby as a person but instead want to commemorate a religious murder. This thread is a pretty standard evidence of that as are the comments on the thing itself.

I think that's a bit cynical mate, and I would suggest that it is still not political. If people want to commemorate the event then what's the problem? The event, however you personally view it, was a religious murder and an attack on Britain and it's armed forces. They said as much. You can see why people want this especially ones close to the armed forces.

We treat our armed forces with something bordering on distaste in this country. I've just come back from the States where things are 100% different. Even if they don't agree with their countries policies they still support the troops.

^^^ This

I have been into Busch Gardens on a family ticket free because I used to be in the mob

Every time I have attended a show at one of the major parks they have asked if there are any serving or ex-military in the audience and applauded them

Here you get no recognition at all, the opposite in fact (people who have served their time are best to keep quiet about it)

Yes, the forces are a voluntary organisation but we'd all be fucked without them....

To add to the debate, there is a memorial for PC Yvonne Fletcher outside the Iranian Embassy, so what's different here?

 

[Damocles]

So it wasn't horrific or scary? Two men, known to security forces, can run down and hack an off duty soldier to death whilst the whole event is captured on camera and shared around the world?

I'd like to know what you find horrific.

It was two maniacs killing a man over their insane and twisted reasoning. This happens all of the time and isn't anything to be scared about. Some people are normal and some people are so insane that their insanity causes them to murder others. The proximity scares people more than the act itself.

They didn't commit this act in the middle of a busy street and ensure it was filmed due to random occurrence, they did it entirely because they wanted it to be circulated around the world and create this image of a monster in your head. In reality most of these people are losers with nothing in their lives and find something to make them feel important and remembered by the world.

Terrorism is less a physical and more a form of mental warfare designed to scare a population into giving up their rights and giving up their civilized outlook by acting as viscerally as possible. 9/11 is a fine example of such a thing, as public an act as possible where the death count didn't specifically matter but the visibility and imagery is more important as Bin Laden admits numerous times in his writings about terrorism.

Terrorism is a form of murder for the sake of propaganda and the Islamists are becoming very good at it because the Western world doesn't seem to fathom this idea. The only way to beat terrorism is to ignore it, mock it, play it down, and generally allow these pathetic dickheads no power over you or anybody else. A memorial to the event itself and not to the man fits into their goals much more than it does into our goals. George Bush did many things right and many things wrong, but the wrongest of all the wrong things that he did was to tell Americans right after 9/11 that this was a war and they were going to exterminate the enemy. This isn't a war, a war is fought against organized soldiers with manufactured hardware and organisational structures. This is a disorganised and geographically separated small group of insane people who through the advent of modern technology have allowed their groups to become merged together. No different to how paedophiles and other insane people have now become more organised and widespread now that the internet has arrived.

I don't think we should give them the satisfaction of a memorial that they can point to as an achievement and that Britons walk past everyday as a reminder of their threat.

 

[Damocles]

Here you get no recognition at all

I come from an extremely large military family. They deserve no extra special recognition and rounds of applause when they walk around. They're a British squaddie, not American fawning all over themselves to be nationalistic wankers. Their service is paid for by us and awards are given to those who go above and beyond. Fetishization of the military is the absolute worst of all American traits and most squaddies I know, which is only about 100, say that they don't want any of that shite.

 

[BimboBob]

Here you get no recognition at all

I come from an extremely large military family. They deserve no extra special recognition and rounds of applause when they walk around. They're a British squaddie, not American fawning all over themselves to be nationalistic wankers. Their service is paid for by us and awards are given to those who go above and beyond. Fetishization of the military is the absolute worst of all American traits and most squaddies I know, which is only about 100, say that they don't want any of that shite.

We should applaud the job they do. I've seen people boo them which is disgraceful. The Americans, for all their over the top nationalism in every walk of life, be it real or in films, have got this right. I have been to the theme parks and loved it when the armed forces stood up for applause.

Sure they volunteer to sign up and be shot at but they are doing it for a country they love.

After it all has finished our armed forces are mostly forgotten about, the sick ones badly treated and mental conditions brushed under the carpet.

This is probably the biggest disgrace of all.

 

[Damocles]

Here you get no recognition at all

I come from an extremely large military family. They deserve no extra special recognition and rounds of applause when they walk around. They're a British squaddie, not American fawning all over themselves to be nationalistic wankers. Their service is paid for by us and awards are given to those who go above and beyond. Fetishization of the military is the absolute worst of all American traits and most squaddies I know, which is only about 100, say that they don't want any of that shite.

We should applaud the job they do. I've seen people boo them which is disgraceful. The Americans, for all their over the top nationalism in every walk of life, be it real or in films, have got this right. I have been to the theme parks and loved it when the armed forces stood up for applause.

Sure they volunteer to sign up and be shot at but they are doing it for a country they love.

After it all has finished our armed forces are mostly forgotten about, the sick ones badly treated and mental conditions brushed under the carpet.

This is probably the biggest disgrace of all.

You've drank the Kool Aid mate. The US treatment of Veterans is an disgrace and we're a million times better than them on this. Look into it, this whole "respect for veterans" stuff is nonsense and they are in no way favoured as part of their society.

This is what I was talking about. We don't clap our troops because we don't need to; our soldiers are looked after by our support systems in place in our society. The US has little to no support systems and veterans are amongst the most vulnerable groups in their society. A cynic would suggest they clap because they need to as a single look at their homeless statistics or the drug use amongst veterans should be causing them to boo

 

[Helmet Cole]

tbh (I don't have the figures to hand) I'm not sure we are that much better in terms of the proportion of our ex-forces who are homeless / in prison. I'll be delighted if I'm wrong about this btw.

 

[BimboBob]

I come from an extremely large military family. They deserve no extra special recognition and rounds of applause when they walk around. They're a British squaddie, not American fawning all over themselves to be nationalistic wankers. Their service is paid for by us and awards are given to those who go above and beyond. Fetishization of the military is the absolute worst of all American traits and most squaddies I know, which is only about 100, say that they don't want any of that shite.

We should applaud the job they do. I've seen people boo them which is disgraceful. The Americans, for all their over the top nationalism in every walk of life, be it real or in films, have got this right. I have been to the theme parks and loved it when the armed forces stood up for applause.

Sure they volunteer to sign up and be shot at but they are doing it for a country they love.

After it all has finished our armed forces are mostly forgotten about, the sick ones badly treated and mental conditions brushed under the carpet.

This is probably the biggest disgrace of all.

You've drank the Kool Aid mate. The US treatment of Veterans is an disgrace and we're a million times better than them on this. Look into it, this whole "respect for veterans" stuff is nonsense and they are in no way favoured as part of their society.

This is what I was talking about. We don't clap our troops because we don't need to; our soldiers are looked after by our support systems in place in our society. The US has little to no support systems and veterans are amongst the most vulnerable groups in their society. A cynic would suggest they clap because they need to as a single look at their homeless statistics or the drug use amongst veterans should be causing them to boo

I was on about the public show of support for their troops. I know they get little else.

 

[SWP's back]

Not signed as don't agree with the idea.

 

[Bluemanc100]

I come from an extremely large military family. They deserve no extra special recognition and rounds of applause when they walk around. They're a British squaddie, not American fawning all over themselves to be nationalistic wankers. Their service is paid for by us and awards are given to those who go above and beyond. Fetishization of the military is the absolute worst of all American traits and most squaddies I know, which is only about 100, say that they don't want any of that shite.

We should applaud the job they do. I've seen people boo them which is disgraceful. The Americans, for all their over the top nationalism in every walk of life, be it real or in films, have got this right. I have been to the theme parks and loved it when the armed forces stood up for applause.

Sure they volunteer to sign up and be shot at but they are doing it for a country they love.

After it all has finished our armed forces are mostly forgotten about, the sick ones badly treated and mental conditions brushed under the carpet.

This is probably the biggest disgrace of all.

You've drank the Kool Aid mate. The US treatment of Veterans is an disgrace and we're a million times better than them on this. Look into it, this whole "respect for veterans" stuff is nonsense and they are in no way favoured as part of their society.

This is what I was talking about. We don't clap our troops because we don't need to; our soldiers are looked after by our support systems in place in our society. The US has little to no support systems and veterans are amongst the most vulnerable groups in their society. A cynic would suggest they clap because they need to as a single look at their homeless statistics or the drug use amongst veterans should be causing them to boo

thanking our squaddies past or present has nothing to do with the care they get from society surely?

You only have to see the reaction that the D Day veterans got recently to see that there is widespread deep feeling for them....