Middle East Conflict (merged)

[BayernMan]

lol! Seven months in we are still playing games. But it’s been clear for a while hostages are an afterthought or dare I say, an inconvenience….

 

[Vic]

This contains incredible ignorance. That region definitely is not shaped by racial elements such as Arabs so no it is not an Arabic space. That region is completely shaped by religion and especially Islam which is why you perceive it as an Arabic space. That's because Israel is surrounded by self-proclaimed Islamic states.

The reason why Israel is home to many 'Europeans' and 'Americans' is because those people are Jewish. That European and American heritage comes because Jews had nowhere to live and have otherwise fleed wherever they lived before due to persecution. Jews in Europe didn't exactly have an easy ride either, I suggest reading about European history in the period between 1939 and 1945.

Without Israel there is no Jewish homeland and so if Israel does not exist then where do you want Jews to live? Do you think that Jews should seriously live as a minority in an Islamic state of Palestine which is what would exist without Israel? This is precisely why Israel was created and SHOULD exist.

The original aim of Zionism was a homeland for the Jewish people. Having it in Palestine was only one option, maybe the wrong one (once the early Zionists realised that their slogan of "a people without land for a land without people" was a false idea) and just a project of colonisation. I suggest reading about early Zionist history.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I’m guessing the sticking point for Israel was that it was touched by Arabs.

The sticking point was that it was a ceasefire that required Israel to cease firing.

 

[BayernMan]

This is so vile, because when he says ''ancient desires'' he is refering to the persecution of Jews in Europe, which was done by white European christians and nazis.

He is saying Hamas and Palestinians hate for Israel is born out of Western Christian hate for Jews which is completely divorced from reality. He is no different than Bibi Netanyahu during his speech.

 

[Blue and true]

This contains incredible ignorance. That region definitely is not shaped by racial elements such as Arabs so no it is not an Arabic space. That region is completely shaped by religion and especially Islam which is why you perceive it as an Arabic space. That's because Israel is surrounded by self-proclaimed Islamic states.

The reason why Israel is home to many 'Europeans' and 'Americans' is because those people are Jewish. That European and American heritage comes because Jews had nowhere to live and have otherwise fleed wherever they lived before due to persecution. Jews in Europe didn't exactly have an easy ride either, I suggest reading about European history in the period between 1939 and 1945.

Without Israel there is no Jewish homeland and so if Israel does not exist then where do you want Jews to live? Do you think that Jews should seriously live as a minority in an Islamic state of Palestine which is what would exist without Israel? This is precisely why Israel was created and SHOULD exist.

Firstly, an uncomfortable home truth for you to swallow; Palestine existed as a state before Israel. But let's not dwell on that for now. Let's instead flip your pathetic logic. Let's ask, should Palestinians live as a minority in an expanded Israeli state? Should they allow the IDF to occupy and colonise more of their land illegally and turn the other cheek. Should they accept more of their innocent women and children to be killed, in the ruse of "collateral damage"? Of course, these aren't questions the Palestinians will be asking if Netanyahu and the rest of his colonisers get their way, because if they do get their way, Palestine as a state won't exist at all. Netanyahu has unequivocally, unashamedly, rejected the proposal of a two-state solution, and the embryonic peace such a solution would foster. You ask, where do you want the Jews to live? I must have missed the statistic that states millions of Jews live prosperously in many countries in the world beside Israel.

In short, unplug your head from that mountain of sand.

 

[BayernMan]

They just need to give it a final scrub.

 

[inbetween]

Firstly, an uncomfortable home truth for you to swallow; Palestine existed as a state before Israel. But let's not dwell on that for now. Let's instead flip your pathetic logic. Let's ask, should Palestinians live as a minority in an expanded Israeli state? Should they allow the IDF to occupy and colonise more of their land illegally and turn the other cheek. Should they accept more of their innocent women and children to be killed, in the ruse of "collateral damage"? Of course, these aren't questions the Palestinians will be asking if Netanyahu and the rest of his colonisers get their way, because if they do get their way, Palestine as a state won't exist at all. Netanyahu has unequivocally, unashamedly, rejected the proposal of a two-state solution, and the embryonic peace such a solution would foster. You ask, where do you want the Jews to live? I must have missed the statistic that states millions of Jews live prosperously in many countries in the world beside Israel.

In short, unplug your head from that mountain of sand.

I completely agree on your points which is why I support two states and not one. Mute points on who stood on that land before Israel though are utterly pointless given the religious nature of that region and how it has changed hands over many years.

My previous post was based upon the apparent reasoning that Israel is somehow not a proper state due to the people that it contains. The reason why Jewish people have been displaced historically and moved to places like Europe and the US is obvious. This does not mean that a Jewish American has no right to self-determination and to deny this right is actually anti-semitic.

The alternative is do you believe that a majority Islamic ruled Palestinian state should exist with a Jewish minority? Why? The two must coexist which is why I do criticise the Netanyahu government and I am not in favour of what they're doing in Gaza.

 

[Blue and true]

I completely agree on your points which is why I support two states and not one. Mute points on who stood on that land before Israel though are utterly pointless given the religious nature of that region and how it has changed hands over many years.

My previous post was based upon the apparent reasoning that Israel is somehow not a proper state due to the people that it contains. The reason why Jewish people have been displaced historically and moved to places like Europe and the US is obvious. This does not mean that a Jewish American has no right to self-determination and to deny this right is actually anti-semitic.

The alternative is do you believe that a majority Islamic ruled Palestinian state should exist with a Jewish minority? Why? The two must coexist which is why I do criticise the Netanyahu government and I am not in favour of what they're doing in Gaza.

To address your question, it's not really a case of should it exist, but rather can it exist? Interestingly, the answer is yes; because there are currently a minority of people living, harmoniously in Israel, who identify as Palestinian-Israel. In other words, Muslims coexisting peacefully with Hebrews. Israel has a right to self-determination, but then so too does Palestine. And when Israel have been reneging on the Oslo accords for years now, encroaching ever more on Palestinian settlements, the Palestinians right of self-determination is being suffocated.

It's also worth remembering Hamas are a terrorist organisation, and Israel are a sovereign nation recognised by the UN. Given the current climate, you'd be forgiven for mistaking this; Israel are now, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist state committing war crimes. But they're protected on high from western democracies that should see their intentions for what they are.

Yes, we are in agreement, a two-state solution is the only outcome that gives a viability of peace.

 

[Vic]

....

My previous post was based upon the apparent reasoning that Israel is somehow not a proper state due to the people that it contains. The reason why Jewish people have been displaced historically and moved to places like Europe and the US is obvious. This does not mean that a Jewish American has no right to self-determination and to deny this right is actually anti-semitic.

...

I don't really know what it means for a Jewish American to have self-determination. If this means they have a right to go and live in Israel where they've never lived, that's a right being denied to Palestinians who had lived there. If it means American Jews can go and live in illegal settlements in the West Bank, they don't have that right.

And I remind you that accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations, is antisemitic.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Have they just taken over the border crossing, where the aid comes through?