Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Vic said:
Would that area where you have to run to a bunker be a formerly Palestinian area now occupied by Jewish settlers?
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Do you mean areas such as Tiberias, Haifa, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Tel Aviv, Beersheva and Sderot. No thought not, another numpty. I'm out of here, there is no point.
 
Eds said:
If the council leader of Liverpool having been elected for four years and was still in power 20 years later despite there being no elections decided to enable the people of Liverpool to fire rockets into Manchester indiscriminately whilst allowing terrorist groups to roam freely, what would you do as a citizen of Manchester?

And to put the other side of the argument:

honestreporting.com

BBC Jenin Coverage Riddled With Lies, Mistakes and Distortions | HonestReporting

The BBC's coverage of the counterterrorism raid in Jenin represents an abject failure in journalism. In sticking to its mission to report the facts
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honestreporting.com

The Jenin Raid: The IDF's Fight Against Iran in the West Bank | HonestReporting

When reporting on Jenin, the media leave out one important point: Iran is behind the rise in West Bank terrorism and violence.
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That is a very simplistic attempt at saying they are right.
Actually, sorry but it is just wrong at every level.
 
Eds said:
Do you mean areas such as Tiberias, Haifa, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Tel Aviv, Beersheva and Sderot. No thought not, another numpty. I'm out of here, there is no point.
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Well, I certainly had some of them in mind. I suppose there's no point now picking you up on the Golda Meir quote. Here's another (cited in Benny Morris's book 1948): Golda Meir, then head of the Jewish Agency Political Department, called the exodus (of Palestinians) "dreadful" and even likened it to what had befallen the Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe.

Then this: Were he an Arab leader, David Ben-Gurion once confessed to the Zionist official Nahum Goldmann, he, too, would wage perpetual war with Israel. "Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them?" he asked. "There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: We have come here and stolen their country."

(Both from a review of the book:
https://www.palestineremembered.com/Articles/General/Story9557.html )

The point is that if you can't accept that land has been illegally occupied, there is no point wondering why there is conflict, let alone how peace might come.
 
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Damocles said:
Israel is in a war. I've never believed in a "moral war" no matter who conducts it and I'm not sure why Israel is getting held to standards that others aren't. Wait until you hear about some of the shit that we did in Iraq, would turn your stomach.
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Bearing in mind we should never legally have been in Iraq I think its a good comparison.
One man's illegal war is another man's justification for murder.
 
Eds said:
You might require a history lesson which I don’t have the time nor inclination. However ask yourself why the arabs in the area have refused deal after deal. The possible 2000 treaty would have given them close to 100% of the land they wanted yet they refused. Ask yourself the millions of aid that is given is spent on terror tunnels, arms etc rather than schools, infrastructure etc. listen to this
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So it's ok to murder civilians?
 
Eds said:
People really need to educate themselves before churning out typical prejudiced statements and I wonder how many of you have actually visited the region or lived in an area where you have less than a minute at any time of the day or night to run to a secure underground bunker to protect yourself. The issue in the middle east is complex and isn’t a simple yes or no. But in simplistic terms, one side wants peace the other wants total destruction of a country. As Golda Meir is all edged to have said over 50 years ago, ‘Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.’ Abuse me all you like, it’s water off a duck‘s back but there are two sides to every conflict. Peace is the goal, sooner rather than later and without further bloodshed.

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I have educated myself on the matter (but do not for one minute profess to be an expert). How can there ever be peace when Israel force innocent people from their homes to build new settlements for Jews?
 
Eds said:
Not the side that drives down a busy main road and drives deliberately into people then get out and start stabbing them. Imagine that happening on Deansgate whilst out minding your own business with family.
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Absolutely, but then that just leaves the other side that are essentially behaving like Russia in Ukraine.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
1st Battalion Parachute Regiment enters the chat...
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I'm not sure what kind of answer that is. I am fully aware of disgraceful events that our government has overseen. Bloody Sunday was caused by an government, totally out of its depth asking soldiers to do a policeman's job. You canot train someone to kill others and then be shocked when they do, that of course is what is happening now with the Israelis. The soldiers are doing what their government want and expect.
 
Blue Mist said:
I'm not sure what kind of answer that is. I am fully aware of disgraceful events that our government has overseen. Bloody Sunday was caused by an government, totally out of its depth asking soldiers to do a policeman's job. You canot train someone to kill others and then be shocked when they do, that of course is what is happening now with the Israelis. The soldiers are doing what their government want and expect.
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i admit i was being a bit mischievous with that post...i guess i was trying to highlight how passionate and knowledgeable some posters were on a topic so far from "home"...and that its easy to "pick a side" in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that is counter to how they view a similar conflict over here in NI.

For example, i often see support for the Palestinians...who can be construed as the smaller and oppressed side of the battle. They are often compared to the nationalist community over here...indeed the nationalist community would tend to show solidarity with the Palestinians. Yet, those Palestinian supporters can be strong/vocal supporters of the British Government and British Army's involvement in Northern Ireland. The loyalist/PUL community over here tend to show solidarity with Israel.

I just think its an interesting observation...but perhaps not a discussion for this thread.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
i admit i was being a bit mischievous with that post...i guess i was trying to highlight how passionate and knowledgeable some posters were on a topic so far from "home"...and that its easy to "pick a side" in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that is counter to how they view a similar conflict over here in NI.

For example, i often see support for the Palestinians...who can be construed as the smaller and oppressed side of the battle. They are often compared to the nationalist community over here...indeed the nationalist community would tend to show solidarity with the Palestinians. Yet, those Palestinian supporters can be strong/vocal supporters of the British Government and British Army's involvement in Northern Ireland. The loyalist/PUL community over here tend to show solidarity with Israel.

I just think its an interesting observation...but perhaps not a discussion for this thread.
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Maybe not in the context you did it but maybe their is a lot of relevance. The British govt certainly encouraged Protestants to move to NI, perhaps to even the numbers up ?
The people of NI are still suffering from decisions made many years ago by politicians. Both the Palestinians and Israelis will day British politicians made decisions years ago that they are now paying the price for.
 
Eds said:
What land have they taken and when?
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See now this is interesting. Because maybe you want to deny that the occupation of the West Bank is illegal under international law, or maybe that it’s even occupied at all. You think all the land belongs to Israel. So where does that leave you? If you think that there is just one country between the Med. and the Jordan River, then we can ask what kind of country that is. And the answer is it’s a country where one ethnic group rules and the other is subjugated, where one people have the vote and most of the others don’t, where one people have the freedom to go where they want and live where they want and others don’t. Where some people are governed by martial law and are liable to be kicked out of their home or have it demolished at any time. It’s an apartheid state - it’s clearer than ever.
 
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This afternoon I decided to re-read up on the history of the area again. What a cluster fuck.
Sadly the British Goverment are front and centre as they administered the area between 1920 and 1948. Before that it was the Ottoman empire who had sided with Germany during the first World War. They lost so we took over, well you do don't you. Herein lies the first problem. The Palestinians were promised the region if they helped us fight the Ottomans. They did but we reneged.
The other problem was we did exactly the same with the Jews. We lied to both Jews and Muslims. And we wonder why they are fighting for a land they believe is theirs and one that we had no right to give away.
 
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