Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

oldius said:
I listened to a highly respected Israeli writer the other day. She said that Israel will soon be isolated from the rest of the world. She described it as a silent isolation, where the world would not want anything to do with Israel, its goods, its services, and its exports. The power in the hands of the global consumer is immense, and profits are what drives capitalist nations. Boycotting the goods and services of those nations committing heinous acts is the route to driving political will . The current situation cannot continue, and those who continue to support the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF will perish in the court of public opinion. I include Trump here. To clarify, this has absolutely nothing to do with religious bigotry or racism. It is a humanitarian view that the slaying of the innocent cannot continue.

I have just found this article from last year, upon which the interview may have been based:

theconversation.com

Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel are becoming increasingly isolated internationally – they need to listen to their friends

The brutality of Israel’s assault on Gaza and the failure to secure the release of the October 7 hostages have left the Israeli prime minister with few friends domestically or internationally.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
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Brilliant article. As uncaring as it sounds, I want to know how ordinary British Jews feel about what is happening; their opinions on this need to be heard.
 
If you strip it back to what human beings want, then you would be closer to the desires of the vast majority of people in Palestine and Israel - to live in peace and harmony with the ability to have a home, work, and raise a family in safety and security.

This will not include occupation. It will not include bombs. It will not include settlements. It will not include bulldozers.

To a layman such as myself, I find the idea of lines drawn on maps deciding which religions can occupy which spaces preposterous.
 
Palerider said:
Two questions. And no flippant/silly answers please.

1) What do the Palestinians actually want?

2) What do the Israelis actually want?
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1.) To live peacefully in land that is theirs and not have the land plundered/settled and their people slaughtered at the hands of an outside state.

2.) Most Israelis want peace. The Israeli government/Zionist movement, which should not be treated as an extension of most Israeli citizens, want to eradicate the Palestinian people and seize the surrounding territory.
 
robbieh said:
Netanyahu's wrong side of humanity speech is just sickening but not unusual.

The whole idea has always been to paint Palestinians as Jew hating terrorists.

The reality is Palestinians are a people seriously pissed off that an incoming group displaced them, destroyed their property, killed them in large numbers. Then when they put up some perfectly justified resistance in the face of extreme odds they were called terrorists which then allowed more seizure of land etc.
Israel will operate this rinse and repeat exercise until they have the whole of Palestine.
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Keep saying but. Every accusation is a confession.
 
Blue and true said:
1.) To live peacefully in land that is theirs and not have the land plundered/settled and their people slaughtered at the hands of an outside state.
2.) Most Israelis want peace. The Israeli government/Zionist movement, which should not be treated as an extension of most Israeli citizens, want to eradicate the Palestinian people and seize the surrounding territory.
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Counterpoint

 
oldius said:
If you strip it back to what human beings want, then you would be closer to the desires of the vast majority of people in Palestine and Israel - to live in peace and harmony with the ability to have a home, work, and raise a family in safety and security.

This will not include occupation. It will not include bombs. It will not include settlements. It will not include bulldozers.

To a layman such as myself, I find the idea of lines drawn on maps deciding which religions can occupy which spaces preposterous.
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So what are you calling an occupation?
Israel itself?
or Israelis inside Palestinian borders?

Blue and true said:
1.) To live peacefully in land that is theirs and not have the land plundered/settled and their people slaughtered at the hands of an outside state.

2.) Most Israelis want peace. The Israeli government/Zionist movement, which should not be treated as an extension of most Israeli citizens, want to eradicate the Palestinian people and seize the surrounding territory.
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So are you saying that just deciding permanent and enforceable borders would be enough for peace? i.e we end up with pieces of land that is Palestine and pieces of land that is Israel? And we all then agree that the wrong party is the one that encroaches on the others land?
 
Palerider said:
So what are you calling an occupation?
Israel itself?
or Israelis inside Palestinian borders?


So are you saying that just deciding permanent and enforceable borders would be enough for peace? i.e we end up with pieces of land that is Palestine and pieces of land that is Israel? And we all then agree that the wrong party is the one that encroaches on the others land?
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It's amazing that no-one has thought of that before .....
 
Palerider said:
Flippant answer again?
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How else can one respond to someone who'd rather ask simplistic questions on a football forum than do half an hour on Wikipedia?

Still, do we detect a less pro-Israel stance than a few weeks ago?
 
Blue and true said:
How is Israel encroaching on Palestinian land anything other than an occupation?
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I see that but are you saying that the existence of Israel itself is an occupation? or are you saying that the Israelis venturing outside Israeli borders are the occupation. i.e. Does Israel have a right to exist.
 
Palerider said:
Flippant answer again?
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Nothing personal but sometimes questions deserve flippant answers.

You must presumably know which territories are considered OPT and why and how close we have been before to a two-state solution and what happened?

Anyway, I'll leave you to it. Sorry for interrupting.
 
Palerider said:
So what are you calling an occupation?
Israel itself?
or Israelis inside Palestinian borders?


So are you saying that just deciding permanent and enforceable borders would be enough for peace? i.e we end up with pieces of land that is Palestine and pieces of land that is Israel? And we all then agree that the wrong party is the one that encroaches on the others land?
Click to expand...
If occupation is the physical possession of land, usually by victory in war, then anyone using force to take position on another's land is an occupier.

Historically, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully in Palestine, and a single state known as Palestine, with Jews and Arabs living peacefully within, is the ideal solution. A mess of the West's creation is what we largely have and no amount of religious fervour will convince me that borders drawn on maps, forcing people to live apart based on story books written centuries ago, is a rightful aim of the 21st century. I would like to see a single-state solution, but to get there must see an end to the use of force as a pre-requisite to lengthy, multi-national negotiations. I respect the right of anyone to practice their religion, but to say that you cannot live alongside me because you practice your religion while I am an aetheist is a nonsense.

What we currently have: the deliberate slaying of men, women, and children, cannot be allowed to continue. Not only is it utterly inhumane and intolerable, it is also probably the most likely cause of a future world-war.
 
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