Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

The blue phantom said:
What do you think those Palestinians removed should do to try and get their stolen homes back? Serious question. What would you do in their situation?
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Remove and disavow Hamas, which has stated that they want to exterminate every Jew on the planet, as their representatives. Disavow Hezbollah and forge a closer alliance with Israelis.

Install a moderate government that appeals and works with the UN to reach a compromise with Israel via dialogue with the United States, European Union etc. Hell they could even apply to join NATO. Form a closer bond with the Western Powers, and not the likes of Iran whose regime also feels the same way about Jewish people and the State of Israel as a whole, to create a two-state solution in which official borders are recognised and enforced by the UN, in which if either side breaks, will see international intervention to restore peace. If either side refuses, they are breaking UN protocol.

Oh and for Jews and Muslims to stop hating each other over something so ridiculous as religion, but I know which is the more likely scenario to happen. What I WOULDN'T do, is send in young male fighters to kill and rape Israeli civilians, because that also makes it very difficult for me to support your cause. As an example, I continue to support Ukraine because they have been invaded by a raping, murdering aggressor and are defending their families lives and homes. The moment Ukraine uses 'similar' tactics against Russian civilians in their righteous cause, is the moment i'll cease supporting them.

What about yourself? How do you see the situation improving?
 
I’m sure it’s been said but Britain has blood on its hands in how it carved up land that wasn’t theirs. It’s a real shame that Israel and Palestine can’t find peace and a way to co-exist. I fear they’ll never be a solution.
 
bugsyblue said:
I’m sure it’s been said but Britain has blood on its hands in how it carved up land that wasn’t theirs. It’s a real shame that Israel and Palestine can’t find peace and a way to co-exist. I fear they’ll never be a solution.
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It was said when I studied the Arab-Israeli conflict at school about 35 years ago, as was the suggestion there’ll never be a solution.
 
Egyptian police officer has just murdered some Israeli tourists in Alexandria.

IDF carrying out strikes against Hezbollah now as they fired rockets into Israel last night.

Security forces are still in gun battles trying to clear hamas insurgents who have hostages.
 
bugsyblue said:
I’m sure it’s been said but Britain has blood on its hands in how it carved up land that wasn’t theirs. It’s a real shame that Israel and Palestine can’t find peace and a way to co-exist. I fear they’ll never be a solution.
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When the Ottoman Empire, who had held it for 500 years, signed it over to the European Powers after their defeat in the First World War, it kind of did become Britain's 'land'. At least under international rules.
 
The blue phantom said:
What do you think those Palestinians removed should do to try and get their stolen homes back? Serious question. What would you do in their situation?
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as a person who lives in the stolen land i cannot tell the oppressed what actions to take. I cannot imagine the pain and trauma they are enduring.
But I beg them. slaughtering civilians is not the answer. it does not get us close to liberation. it only perpetuates the cycle of death.

i recognize this is ultimately our fault.. all the dead is our own doing.. israel as a country deserves what it got.. but the people, the hostages, the individuals. they just wanted to live their lives.
 
Metal Biker said:
Remove and disavow Hamas, which has stated that they want to exterminate every Jew on the planet, as their representatives. Disavow Hezbollah and forge a closer alliance with Israelis.

Install a moderate government that appeals and works with the UN to reach a compromise with Israel via dialogue with the United States, European Union etc. Hell they could even apply to join NATO. Form a closer bond with the Western Powers, and not the likes of Iran whose regime also feels the same way about Jewish people and the State of Israel as a whole, to create a two-state solution in which official borders are recognised and enforced by the UN, in which if either side breaks, will see international intervention to restore peace. If either side refuses, they are breaking UN protocol.

Oh and for Jews and Muslims to stop hating each other over something so ridiculous as religion, but I know which is the more likely scenario to happen. What about yourself? How do you see the situation improving?
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Nothing improves until all illegal occupation of Palestinian territory by Israel is addressed. You've not really explained what the Palestinians thrown out of their homes should do tbh as Israel are not handing back the stolen land, Ever. So basically they have to join the other 2 Million in the biggest prison camp in the world.
 
The blue phantom said:
Nothing improves until all illegal occupation of Palestinian territory by Israel is addressed. You've not really explained what the Palestinians thrown out of their homes should do tbh as Israel are not handing back the stolen land, Ever. So basically they have to join the other 2 Million in the biggest prison camp in the world.
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I did exactly that; you're just not happy that my answer didn't involve violence. So i'll repeat it for you;

Remove Hamas as their representatives, install a more moderate, co-operative government that uses dialogue, not aggression, to press their case before the United Nations. Create dialogue with the Israeli Government. Publicly disassociate with Hezbollah and Iran, which are also seen as hostile towards Jews and the continued existance of the State of Israel.
 
Metal Biker said:
I did exactly that; you're just not happy that my answer didn't involve violence. So i'll repeat it for you;

Remove Hamas as their representatives, install a more moderate, co-operative government that uses dialogue, not aggression, to press their case before the United Nations. Create dialogue with the Israeli Government. Publicly disassociate with Hezbollah and Iran, which are also seen as hostile towards Jews and the continued existance of the State of Israel.
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Do you think Israel will ever give the stolen land back to the Palestinians?
 
The blue phantom said:
Do you think Israel will ever give the stolen land back to the Palestinians?
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Under international UN, NATO and US pressure against a civil, rational and non-aggressive Palestinian Government, they'd have little sentiment or choice not to comply.

Now give your solution, stop dodging. You asked me, i'm asking you.
 
The blue phantom said:
Do you think Israel will ever give the stolen land back to the Palestinians?
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I’d wager after what Hamas has done, they won’t stop until the Palestinian people have no land at all.

Hamas cares nothing for its people, that’s clear by its actions that just bring death and suffering for the majority of them.
 
Metal Biker said:
Under international UN, NATO and US pressure against a civil, rational and non-aggressive Palestinian Government, they'd have little sentiment or choice not to comply.

Now give your solution, stop dodging. You asked me, i'm asking you.
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Dodging what I've answered everything. If you honestly think the Israelis will give the stolen land back you're for the cookoos.
 
blueinsa said:
I’d wager after what Hamas has done, they won’t stop until the Palestinian people have no land at all.

Hamas cares nothing for its people, that’s clear by its actions that just bring death and suffering for the majority of them.
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I agree about Hams.

But Israel cares not one fuck about the Palestinians too. There's a post on here this morning which was one of the worst I've ever read regarding Palestinian people.
 

Hostages: Learning From Israel​



NORMAN FINKELSTEIN
7 OCT 2023


The crocodile tears have begun over Israeli hostages taken by Gaza militants. But Israel has held the 2.1 million people of Gaza, including one million children, hostage in one of the most densely populated areas on the planet for nearly 20 years. In fact, Israel was the only country in the world to have legalized hostage taking. Revered President of the Israeli High Court Aharon Barak held in 1997 that “a detention is legal if it is designed to promote State security, even if the danger to State Security does not emanate from the detainees themselves,” and that “detention ... for the purpose of release of ... captured and missing soldiers is a vital interest to the State.” (The decision wasn’t reversed until 2000.) If the past is any guide, Gaza’s leadership will swap the Israelis for some of the 4,500 Palestinians being held in Israeli prisons on alleged “security grounds.” Gaza is only playing by the book written by Israel.
“All the chorus of calumny, which the Party of Order never fail, in their orgies of blood, to raise against their victims, only proves that the bourgeois of our days considers himself the legitimate successor to the baron of old, who thought every weapon in his own hand fair against the plebeian, while in the hands of the plebeian a weapon of any kind constituted in itself a crime.”
Karl Marx, The Civil War in France
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blueinsa said:
I’d wager after what Hamas has done, they won’t stop until the Palestinian people have no land at all.
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What a lot of people don't understand is Iarael haven't just stolen all this land or occupied it. People somehow forget or don't realise a lot was sold by very rich Arab land owners. Its not as cut and dry as people are told.

I don't wanna get into too much politics, but the Western media don't really cover the Israel and Palestine issue with much truth/fairness.

Israel certainly are to blame too, but it's never been as one sided as the media here spins it. I was in Beersheba roughly 5 years ago to the day and Palestinians were firing rockets at where I was, unprovoked at the time. Hardly a word about it in the news here in the UK. If it was the other way around, it would have had a lot more coverage. There's a lot happens both ways that we don't know about unless you've been there. A lot of Palestinians are far more oppressed by Hamas and the people running their country right now.


Either way it's a sad situation all round, innocent people on both sides being killed, its not right.

I have family and friends in Israel, I've been in contact but none of them have been online since yesterday. Hopefully they're all OK.
 
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