Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

robbieh said:
It's always about making Israel safe. How safe do you think Palestinians living in the west Bank and Gaza have felt in the last 20 years?
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What Israel is doing is not making anyone safe ! Quite the opposite - their actions will make a lot of people unsafe including Israel itself and people across european shores. But at least they'll grab some land and claim they gained it in the victory in a war with Hamas.
 
Bluemoon_420 said:
My friend Ahed was arrested last night by the Israeli Death Force, over an instagram post that wasn’t even from her account.

This is Israeli justice in a nutshell, The purge is well and truly underway.
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Saw that this morning. Apparently her dad was arrested a couple of weeks ago .... whereabouts still unknown. Maybe abducted or kidnapped is the correct terminology.
 
Palerider said:
I support Israel in this, they are obviously not perfect but I do see them and their supporters as the adults in the room. To answer your question (which is far fetched), no, removing the Palestinians from their lands is not justified UNLESS it comes down to the survival of one state/country or the other. i.e. a fight to the death where both sides are so consumed by hate for each other that they are willing to fight forever. In that case I think it would be better if one of them moved (peacefully ideally). Any volunteers?

Now, assuming that the majority of both peoples are not consumed by hate and just want to get along with their lives and each other then the problem becomes how do you get rid of the extremists on both sides? Now Israel can vote Netanyahu out in their next election but the Palestinians seems unable (or unwilling) to do anything about Hamas.

I think Israel, the US and the UK have called this correctly. Nothing will change until Hamas are destroyed and my belief is that long term that will be to the benefit of both Palestinians and Israelis.

My question to you would be "How do you make Israel safe from attack whilst leaving Hamas in place?" and you have to answer that before Israel will agree to a ceasefire.
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The adults in the room... Christ you must have had abusive parents or something
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
There are currently 10 million in Israel, the West Bank & Gaza. There's over 2m in the Gaza Strip alone.

So I'd say, compared to that, 5% is sparse. And that 472k probably included about 150k who came in from Egypt and Syria around the mid-19th century.
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We could go around the houses on this, but the fact remains the land was inhabited, “sparse” or not.
 
Palerider said:
My question to you would be "How do you make Israel safe from attack whilst leaving Hamas in place?" and you have to answer that before Israel will agree to a ceasefire.
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I really don’t have to answer before Israel accepts a ceasefire but in the interest of keeping this debate cordial I’ll try my best.

We’ll be waiting a while before Netanyahu agrees to any ceasefire anyway.

Your concern is the safety of Israel and I get that but I think it is as much the actions of Israel as it is any neighbouring country this century and certainly any Palestinian that has jeopardised their security.
They have the capacity to defend themselves and the backing of further military power as a deterrent for anyone else getting involved.
You don’t want a ceasefire, well I’m afraid you will not get any progress without it. I am of the mind that this suits Netanyahu and his party fine. I think it is no great secret that he favours expansionism over security of his own people.

My view is you cannot isolate what’s happening in Gaza and yes I agree Hamas has to be dealt with. You need to look at Palestine as a whole and stop the illegal settlements and apartheid and internment without trial, without charge even.

At what stage do you suggest stopping bombing and start talking.? When Hamas are gone?
What’s left then. Who do you talk to. Who rebuilds. Who picks up the pieces.

What is the plan?
Is it security or is it expansion.?

I know what I think but only time will tell. I wouldn’t believe a word out of the Israeli government no more than I would Hamas.
I don’t think the US and UK have called this right, I think they have their strategic interests covered and that’s sadly predictable.

At the end of the day, I don’t have the answer, I’m not a diplomat, but nobody in here is either.
However you don’t need to be a diplomat to see that you can’t treat people in your jurisdiction the way the Palestinians are treated consistently for decades and not expect trouble.

I recognise injustice when I see it.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Yeah right. Then subsequently how they can eradicate Jews inside Isradl's 1948 borders.
I'd read the 1988 charter if I was you - to know their true intent. The 2017 update is aimply to put lipstick on a pig for gullible westerner support.
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Either you believe the Hamas charter or not.

If you believe the 1988 one then you can’t turn around and say oh no but they’re Hamas you can’t believe the 2017 one.


I keep noticing how often the same people who will tell you that random Hamas person #367 in front of a camera saying they want to wipe out all of Israel is treated as an official spokesman for the whole group, but an Israeli minister says nuke Gaza and it’s just a rogue right winger we should ignore.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Supposedly she’s posted a rant about killing Israelis and this led to her arrest.
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The post referred to settlers rather than Israeli’s and apparently it’s not her account. Even if it was, I wouldn’t be surprised by such a post considering the sickening acts the terrorist bastards commit in the West Bank on a daily basis with impunity and what her family has had to deal with for years.
 
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blueinsa said:
We don’t see anyone alive in the car to begin with or if there is even anyone in there.
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LMAO right on queue. Yeah they were just shooting into an empty car for shits and giggles. It’s not like they don’t have form for this kind of shit is it!
 
domalino said:
Either you believe the Hamas charter or not.

If you believe the 1988 one then you can’t turn around and say oh no but they’re Hamas you can’t believe the 2017 one.


I keep noticing how often the same people who will tell you that random Hamas person #367 in front of a camera saying they want to wipe out all of Israel is treated as an official spokesman for the whole group, but an Israeli minister says nuke Gaza and it’s just a rogue right winger we should ignore.
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As I’ve stated before the “Friends of Israel” on here are the gold medal winners in the mental gymnastics.
 
Bluemoon_420 said:
LMAO right on queue. Yeah they were just shooting into an empty car for shits and giggles. It’s not like they don’t have form for this kind of shit is it!
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Even if he did see people in the car, he would dispute they are Palestenians. People like these find any justification to make themselves feel better or not to feel guilty of what they are complicit in. Posters history can tell you which side of the conflict they will be on even if they didn't say a word.
 
Chippy_boy said:
In terms of interests in the area (as opposed to interests back at home) it seems to me they have more to lose from pissing off the Arabs than pissing off the Israelis.
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Interests back home trump regional interests. Also Israeli military companies are crucial to many core US defensive systems: Trophy (Drone snd Anti-Tank defence), Iron Dome, Iron Beam (Hi-Powered Lazer enhancemen and Arrow.
 
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