Search my history and you won’t find me defending Israeli administration of justice in the occupied territories, but regardless of what you or I may believe is happening in that video, it doesn’t prove anything conclusively.Even if he did see people in the car, he would dispute they are Palestenians. People like these find any justification to make themselves feel better or not to feel guilty of what they are complicit in. Posters history can tell you which side of the conflict they will be on even if they didn't say a word.
Seriously. I would think they were a lot safer pre October 7th than afterwards.
I believe the 1988 one.Either you believe the Hamas charter or not.
If you believe the 1988 one then you can’t turn around and say oh no but they’re Hamas you can’t believe the 2017 one.
I keep noticing how often the same people who will tell you that random Hamas person #367 in front of a camera saying they want to wipe out all of Israel is treated as an official spokesman for the whole group, but an Israeli minister says nuke Gaza and it’s just a rogue right winger we should ignore.
I'm not doubting they scored an own goal here. I was just replying to someone saying that Israel have to keep themselves safe.Seriously. I would think they were a lot safer pre October 7th than afterwards.
Search my history and you won’t find me defending Israeli administration of justice in the occupied territories, but regardless of what you or I may believe is happening in that video, it doesn’t prove anything conclusively.
You simply cannot tell what has happened and what the context is.
That’s bothering simple fact of most the stuff we see posted from both sides of the argument.
The problem is they can’t and won’t destroy Hamas it’s an unrealistic objective, even the Americans are trying to get them to come up with something more realistic, I’m afraid it looks to the rest of the world like a vengeance mission what other excuses could there be for shelling bakeries etc?I support Israel in this, they are obviously not perfect but I do see them and their supporters as the adults in the room. To answer your question (which is far fetched), no, removing the Palestinians from their lands is not justified UNLESS it comes down to the survival of one state/country or the other. i.e. a fight to the death where both sides are so consumed by hate for each other that they are willing to fight forever. In that case I think it would be better if one of them moved (peacefully ideally). Any volunteers?
Now, assuming that the majority of both peoples are not consumed by hate and just want to get along with their lives and each other then the problem becomes how do you get rid of the extremists on both sides? Now Israel can vote Netanyahu out in their next election but the Palestinians seems unable (or unwilling) to do anything about Hamas.
I think Israel, the US and the UK have called this correctly. Nothing will change until Hamas are destroyed and my belief is that long term that will be to the benefit of both Palestinians and Israelis.
My question to you would be "How do you make Israel safe from attack whilst leaving Hamas in place?" and you have to answer that before Israel will agree to a ceasefire.
That's amazing. I suppose they had no need to discuss anything as they'd no doubt settle for 12 deaths in a decade.Between the last Gaza war in 2014 and 7/10, 12 Israelis were killed in Israel by Hamas.
For context Israelis are 100x more likely to die of diabetes than Hamas in that period and almost 50 people in Britain were killed by Islamic terrorists.
The last 10 years were for Israel as bloodless as any ongoing conflict can be.
Of course the IDF killed over 1200 Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank in the same time frame. A 100:1 ratio of deaths on each side.
I don’t think Israel made any serious attempts at peace talks during that decade.
I assume it's this video
If anyone was to post video clearly showing the execution of innocent citizens then it would be rightly criticised by everyone imo.
What we get is a video that has no context, no real evidence of anyone being killed, irrespective of who they may or might not be and you are supposed to just lap it up and join in with the narrative.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way and it shouldn't work that way for anyone.
There is aftermath and 4 men are dead in the vehicle, very graphically so. One weapon is taken from the vehicle on video, apparently there was a second not on the video.
If that is evidence they were combatant or just armed civilians its hard to say.
Supposedly she’s posted a rant about killing Israelis and this led to her arrest.
The post referred to settlers rather than Israeli’s and apparently it’s not her account. Even if it was, I wouldn’t be surprised by such a post considering the sickening acts the terrorist bastards commit in the West Bank on a daily basis with impunity and what her family has had to deal with for years.
No I am no Biblical scholar. But I research. Where did I say I was Biblical scholar ?? I am a Christian and no grief with Judaism or Islam , but I can see right from wrong.But if I have said anything incorrect prove me wrong. I can talk about the Biblical floods, Noah, Sumerians who historically mentioned these events.If you follow Biblical lines fom Adam and Eve the world is 7000 years old whereas science suggest 13.8 Billion years. It is a real quandary for me. SSo you're a biblical scholar now and take it literally? That's really the worst argument I've ever heard, and in your post that takes some doing. Do you seriously think that Uganda has the same significance for the Jewish people that Israel, their historic home, does?
There's lots of states that didn't exist 100 years ago that now do. Most of the Middle East and Africa for a start. Many of those were "given" to one group or other. If you can read books without lots of pictures or that don't consist of give-word sentences, I'd recommend James Barr's "A Line In The Sand". The Al Saud tribe's claim to Saudi Arabia is based on conquest of the other tribes (and that conquest was only finally completed about a hundred years ago).
The Hashemites who rule Jordan were Saudis who lost out to the Al Sauds but got some land because they'd also supported the Allies in WW1. Many African countries were formed that arbitrarily brought competing groups within the same boundaries.
Millions of Indians were displaced in 1947 when that country was partitioned. None of those are screaming to go back to their original homes. Pakistan, in fact, is in the process of expelling 1.7m undocumented Afghan refugees, some of whom have lived in Pakistan for decades. Where's your outrage about that? You're probably completely ignorant about it, yet spout the usual ill-informed cliches about Israel/Palestine.
Nd talking of Afghanistan, it's estimated that 2/3rds of the population require humanitarian aid, yet the funds given to the previous regime have been frozen by the countries that previously donated since the Taliban took over. Sounds to me like collective punishment of the Afghan people, yet no one is marching in London demanding that Pakistan stop the deportation.
I read an article a few years back by a Syrian stuck in Syria between attacks from ISIS and his own government. The gist of his article to the west was 'stick your consciences, stick your good words and do fucking something'.I really don’t have to answer before Israel accepts a ceasefire but in the interest of keeping this debate cordial I’ll try my best.
We’ll be waiting a while before Netanyahu agrees to any ceasefire anyway.
Your concern is the safety of Israel and I get that but I think it is as much the actions of Israel as it is any neighbouring country this century and certainly any Palestinian that has jeopardised their security.
They have the capacity to defend themselves and the backing of further military power as a deterrent for anyone else getting involved.
You don’t want a ceasefire, well I’m afraid you will not get any progress without it. I am of the mind that this suits Netanyahu and his party fine. I think it is no great secret that he favours expansionism over security of his own people.
My view is you cannot isolate what’s happening in Gaza and yes I agree Hamas has to be dealt with. You need to look at Palestine as a whole and stop the illegal settlements and apartheid and internment without trial, without charge even.
At what stage do you suggest stopping bombing and start talking.? When Hamas are gone?
What’s left then. Who do you talk to. Who rebuilds. Who picks up the pieces.
What is the plan?
Is it security or is it expansion.?
I know what I think but only time will tell. I wouldn’t believe a word out of the Israeli government no more than I would Hamas.
I don’t think the US and UK have called this right, I think they have their strategic interests covered and that’s sadly predictable.
At the end of the day, I don’t have the answer, I’m not a diplomat, but nobody in here is either.
However you don’t need to be a diplomat to see that you can’t treat people in your jurisdiction the way the Palestinians are treated consistently for decades and not expect trouble.
I recognise injustice when I see it.
To be fair they have been on the receiving end since its independence,And until they do, they will FOREVER be on the receiving end of terrorist attacks. Staggering that supposedly intelligent Israelis - if e.g. Netanyahu - if he is supposed to be intelligent? - cannot grasp this.
I wonder why that is??? Treat people like shit and what do they expect?To be fair they have been on the receiving end since its independence,
Yep, that's about the size of it.Interests back home trump regional interests. Also Israeli military companies are crucial to many core US defensive systems: Trophy (Drone snd Anti-Tank defence), Iron Dome, Iron Beam (Hi-Powered Lazer enhancemen and Arrow.