Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

[arbabarshad]

Those supporting Israel in their genocide, mass murder, land grab … are hypocrites and complicit in Israel’s actions. They have no legitimate defence of Israel’s actions so resort to making prolonged arguments over daily issues to avoid talking about the longer term issues.

I hope everyone complicit in genocide and mass murder of innocents (thousands of children and women) die a slow and painful death. And that applies to anyone complicity in murder of anyone innocent, Palestinian or Israeli.

 

[halfcenturyup]

You've already answered your own question. Hamas previously attacked from afar with rockets and anything else near the border fence usually amounted to Palestinians throwing rocks. Gaza is not peaceful but why would the Israeli's be worried? There is a complacency there that nothing really bad is going to happen because it hasn't happened before.

It is definitely possible that Israeli intelligence didn't know the details of the attack in terms of the day, method and timing. If you don't know any or all of these and your attackers plan an attack early morning on a quiet holy day.... How is it possible that you could repel a sudden attack of a 3000 strong army, some of whom have literally flown over the border fence into Israel?

As has already been posted there are countless examples of such intelligence failures in history. The biggest questions of Israeli intelligence and the armed forces will be asked on complacency and not conspiracy.

You may be right. We will see.

But which is it? Hamas is an organisation that fires rockets "from afar" into Israel and gets kids to throw stones? Or an existential threat? They can't be one one day and the other the next.

If they have been an existential threat for the last 20 years it stretches credulity that Hamas hasn't been infiltrated, that there aren't scores of informants in Gaza and that movements and conversations aren't monitored. Troops must be in a state of alert permanently, surely, against such a threat?

But all they had to do was attack without notice early in the morning on a Holy day? What you call complacency I would call, at least, negligence.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Given this and the fact that there is a near full fixture list on Saturday leads one to doubt they have any allegiance to football at all ......

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Given this and the fact that there is a near full fixture list on Saturday leads one to doubt they have any allegiance to football at all ......

There might be a few on here that’ll go down to help the buffer and help “keep the peace”.

“Keep the peace” having its secondary meaning of shouting words like respect whilst daring people to go too far.

 

[west didsblue]

Given this and the fact that there is a near full fixture list on Saturday leads one to doubt they have any allegiance to football at all ......

The last time this bunch of losers did anything only a handful turned up. Irrelevant bunch of EDL/NF/BNP tossers.

The fact that the Palestine march and the remembrance events are separated by both time and distance I suspect their “buffer” will turn into a small group of bellends going out on the piss in London whilst looking for random people to fight.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Those supporting Israel in their genocide, mass murder, land grab … are hypocrites and complicit in Israel’s actions. They have no legitimate defence of Israel’s actions so resort to making prolonged arguments over daily issues to avoid talking about the longer term issues.

I hope everyone complicit in genocide and mass murder of innocents (thousands of children and women) die a slow and painful death. And that applies to anyone complicity in murder of anyone innocent, Palestinian or Israeli.

Like being roasted to death in an oven maybe?

 

[inbetween]

You may be right. We will see.

But which is it? Hamas is an organisation that fires rockets "from afar" into Israel and gets kids to throw stones? Or an existential threat? They can't be one one day and the other the next.

If they have been an existential threat for the last 20 years it stretches credulity that Hamas hasn't been infiltrated, that there aren't scores of informants in Gaza and that movements and conversations aren't monitored. Troops must be in a state of alert permanently, surely, against such a threat?

But all they had to do was attack without notice early in the morning on a Holy day? What you call complacency I would call, at least, negligence.

That sort of capability is completely unprecedented. Have you seen their extensive military infrastructure throughout Gaza or the Hamas command HQ built below a hospital? Hamas has only really existed in Gaza militarily since 2006 but they're clearly no longer a relatively unthreatening Palestinian resistance movement. It is now a well equipped terrorist army that has its own aims that are far beyond the needs of the Palestinians.

Many people on here have ridiculous selective amnesia. Even if there is a ceasefire, are Hezbollah going to cease their attacks on the northern border? What about the Houthi's and recent attacks on Israel and US airbases? What about the rhetoric coming from an entire country such as Iran, thank christ we stopped them from getting nuclear weapons!

It's hard to understand how much the game against Israel has changed and escalated massively in just a month. Hamas probably wanted to provoke Israel and then use the response to get the likes of Hezbollah and Iran onboard which has clearly been extremely successful. What was the alternative for Israel though? Do nothing?

If anything, what Hamas did however was the biggest blow to the Palestinian movement ever and it will send them towards further pain and misery. It just proves that Hamas does not represent nor aim to do the best by the Palestinian people and so the only way forward is that they must be removed.

 

[arbabarshad]

That sort of capability is completely unprecedented. Have you seen their extensive military infrastructure throughout Gaza or the Hamas command HQ built below a hospital? Hamas has only really existed in Gaza militarily since 2006 but they're clearly no longer a relatively unthreatening Palestinian resistance movement. It is now a well equipped terrorist army that has its own aims that are far beyond the needs of the Palestinians.

Many people on here have ridiculous selective amnesia. Even if there is a ceasefire, are Hezbollah going to cease their attacks on the northern border? What about the Houthi's and recent attacks on Israel and US airbases? What about the rhetoric coming from an entire country such as Iran, thank christ we stopped them from getting nuclear weapons!

It's hard to understand how much the game against Israel has changed and escalated massively in just a month. Hamas probably wanted to provoke Israel and then use the response to get the likes of Hezbollah and Iran onboard which has clearly been extremely successful. What was the alternative for Israel though? Do nothing?

If anything, what Hamas did however was the biggest blow to the Palestinian movement ever and it will send them towards further pain and misery. It just proves that Hamas does not represent nor aim to do the best by the Palestinian people and so the only way forward is that they must be removed.

What is best by Palestinian people? Being told to leave their homeland en mass ? To maybe save their lives if not killed on the way? Or in a refugee camp ?
Are Israelis going to do the best by Palestinian people?
Hamas killed innocent people, whoever is responsible should be made to account for it but should those responsible on Israeli side be brought to account for killing innocents before 7 October ? And since ?

 

[cucumberman]

In a heartbeat.





That’s the difference between a community that follows the Nightingale Method, and a country that dictates the Hannibal Directive.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Gideon Levy telling some home truths:

 

[BlueAnorak]

It's remarkable how Israeli intelligence is able to locate, target and take out Hamas locations and even specific individuals throughout Gaza, yet those same Israeli intelligence services supposedly had absolutely no idea that a 3000 strong force of Hamas fighters were going to invade Israel.

There's a huge difference between knowing the capability of your opponents and knowing when that capability is to be used.
The planning for Oct 7 was totally off grid.
At the moment Hamas is using phone apps etc. More fool them as the IDF can work out where every end point is - even when you can't read the encrypted communications.
A salutory lesson in relying on your intelligence toys

 

[halfcenturyup]

That sort of capability is completely unprecedented. Have you seen their extensive military infrastructure throughout Gaza or the Hamas command HQ built below a hospital? Hamas has only really existed in Gaza militarily since 2006 but they're clearly no longer a relatively unthreatening Palestinian resistance movement. It is now a well equipped terrorist army that has its own aims that are far beyond the needs of the Palestinians.

Many people on here have ridiculous selective amnesia. Even if there is a ceasefire, are Hezbollah going to cease their attacks on the northern border? What about the Houthi's and recent attacks on Israel and US airbases? What about the rhetoric coming from an entire country such as Iran, thank christ we stopped them from getting nuclear weapons!

It's hard to understand how much the game against Israel has changed and escalated massively in just a month. Hamas probably wanted to provoke Israel and then use the response to get the likes of Hezbollah and Iran onboard which has clearly been extremely successful. What was the alternative for Israel though? Do nothing?

If anything, what Hamas did however was the biggest blow to the Palestinian movement ever and it will send them towards further pain and misery. It just proves that Hamas does nozt represent nor aim to do the best by the Palestinian people and so the only way forward is that they must be removed.

None of which has anything to do with my point about the lack of border security at the time, unless I missed it.

 

[robbieh]

Gideon Levy telling some home truths:

That is brilliant. Thanks for posting.

 

[old-boys-YYF]

Israel wants Gaza, and no one can stop them. It's just that simple. Game over.

 

[cucumberman]

There's a huge difference between knowing the capability of your opponents and knowing when that capability is to be used.
The planning for Oct 7 was totally off grid.
At the moment Hamas is using phone apps etc. More fool them as you can work out where every end point is - even when you can't read the encrypted communications.

Whats your factual evidence?

Where did you get the statements of:

- The planning of Oct 7 was totally off grid
- Hamas is using phone apps
- The terms endpoints and encrypted communications.

Provide the evidence above, as one of the technologies I develop is Unified Endpoint Management Systems and Identity and Access Management System.

Go ahead

 

[Complex Simplicity]

It's remarkable how Israeli intelligence is able to locate, target and take out Hamas locations and even specific individuals throughout Gaza, yet those same Israeli intelligence services supposedly had absolutely no idea that a 3000 strong force of Hamas fighters were going to invade Israel.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe it's an excuse for Netanyahu to march in and grab more land in the process? It's just an assumption, of course.

All appears like 9/11. None of it adds up. Call me a conspiracy theorist.

 

[cucumberman]

Gideon Levy telling some home truths:

Truth.

There’s a difference between the ‘chosen people’ and equality of humanity.

Their Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was of equality of humanity and on level ground with Palestine PM Yasser Arafat. Progress was being made.

BUT CHOSEN PEOPLE WITH RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM ASSASSINATED THEIR VERY OWN PM INSTEAD.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Whats your factual evidence?

Where did you get the statements of:

- The planning of Oct 7 was totally off grid
- Hamas is using phone apps
- The terms endpoints and encrypted communications.

Provide the evidence above, as one of the technologies I develop is Unified Endpoint Management Systems and Identity and Access Management System.

Go ahead

Well as you decided you know better, you ought to know that I work in IT and I used to work in Military IT.
You can also read a stack of articles on the web as to why Isreali intellegence failed to spot the attack coming on the 7th. The common factor is that Hamas planning was totally off grid.
Here is the story of how UK and US signals intellegence has evolved - the same applies now just with new implementation technologies and better processes that use these technologies.

Signals intelligence in modern history - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Now read and learn and stop showing yourself up.

EDIT: This is a good article that gathers all elements together in one place:

How Could Israeli Intelligence Miss the Hamas Invasion Plans?

Hamas pulled off a complex, multifront assault on Israeli territory. At first blush, the situation appears to be a massive intelligence failure. How could Israeli intelligence services—among the best in the world—be caught by surprise?

www.csis.org

 

[cucumberman]

Well as you decided you know better, you ought to know that I work in IT and I used to work in Military IT.
You can also read a stack of articles on the web as to why Isreali intellegence failed to spot the attack coming on the 7th. The common factor is that Hamas planning was totally off grid.
Here is the story of how UK and US signals intellegence has evolved - the same applies now just with new implementation technologies and processes.

Signals intelligence in modern history - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Now read and learn and stop showing yourself up.

Then you’re way behind your understanding then.

All mobile phones in Gaza and West Bank use +972, which is governed under Israeli telcomms.

Too bad your understanding is textbook.

 

[BrianW]

Given this and the fact that there is a near full fixture list on Saturday leads one to doubt they have any allegiance to football at all ......

Strange how 'patriots' have such a piss poor command of the beautiful English tongue.

'country's' is spelt wrongly and numerous random capitalisations, as if they are affecting the style of an 18th-century girl in a love letter.