Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Vic said:
I've previously said that the existential threat to Israel is "a new pharaoh that knew not Joseph". And if that reference means nothing to most, that's because "what the Bible says" means less to people in the western world, and (slower than in the UK) fundamentalism in the USA is less prevalent and less influential than it was. And (more research needed) that may well be true of Jews in America, whose unwavering support for Israel is waning.
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And by chance, Radio 4 covered this today

(From 6 mins) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001sljc
 
Ducado said:
I think it’s Costa Rico that doesn’t have one, why would they need an army?
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Iceland too I thought?

If I recall correctly, Costa Rica's is ensured by the US and Canada; Nicaragua got a bit menacing on the border, and announced that they would invade the day after on some pretext.
The day after they looked at the US and Canadian helicopter gunships that had materialised overnight and were lounging casually just in case they were needed, and decided better of it.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Here's what I posted on page 913.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

I see that but are you saying that the existence of Israel itself is an occupation? or are you saying that the Israelis venturing outside Israeli borders are the occupation. i.e. Does Israel have a right to exist. If I suddenly had the idea of setting up a country for me and my friends to live...
forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk
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I owe you apology as I had missed that post, and you do express your qualms there.

However much of that post is still couched in terms of your hatred for Hamas 'letting innocents be killed' which rather sidesteps the issue of who is actually doing the killing (the IDF), and your indignation that there is not enough consideration for the victims of the initial Hamas atrocity

For all their murderous intent, and bringing all their resources to bear, the worst Hamas could achieve was a one-off surprise terror attack killing 1,200 -1,400 innocent Israelis after a year or more of planning and preparation.

In 6-7 weeks the IDF has killed in excess of 10,000 Palestinians, terrorised hundred of thousands, possibly millions of others, with round the clock bombing one of the most densely populated areas in the World. In case that that is not enough they have also cut off electricity and water, and denied them access to medical care by destroying and closing hospitals.

You can't just keep saying 'Hamas are evil' as justification for doing something far worse and expect people to remain sympathetic to the original cause. That might work with politicians and World leaders but it doesn't cut it with most ordinary people.

They see the imbalance in power at play here and this why people originally sympathetic to the Israeli cause have shifted their concern to what the IDF are doing and how long they are going to carry on doing it.
 
My vision or pipe dream is two state’s living side by side in peace, the Palestinian state should be a beacon of democracy and good governance, a liberal democracy with a highly educated population, instead of wasting money on tunnels and guns have schools and good governance

And both states passing laws banning racist political parties, I know the region it’s been a hot bed of war for centuries, but so was Europe a few hundred years ago could you ever imagine France and Great Britain as allies and friends, and let’s not forget all the other wars and now we all live together in peace (let’s not mention Brexit) if the will is there it can be done
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Iceland too I thought?

If I recall correctly, Costa Rica's is ensured by the US and Canada; Nicaragua got a bit menacing on the border, and announced that they would invade the day after on some pretext.
The day after they looked at the US and Canadian helicopter gunships that had materialised overnight and were lounging casually just in case they were needed, and decided better of it.
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As an aside there are loads of countries that don’t need an army, it’s a ridiculously expensive luxury
 
SouthernPlastic said:
I don’t agree with any of it. But, do you really think of Israel did hold out an olive branch that Hamas would take it? Extremism doesn’t forgive or forget. Sadly, this will continue until one or the other is wiped out.
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You can’t wipe out an ideology and every father or mother they kill they create the next lot of Hamas fighters, that’s if the kids survive in the first place, it’s that simple.

Israel has to stop the land grabs and the indiscriminate bombing in order for the likes of Hamas to not exist any longer.
 
M16 citeh said:
Why is a liberal democracy necessarily better than any other systems of governance, especially for third world countries? I don't see liberal democracy exactly doing wonders for us or the (black) Americans... It's main role in my eyes is the maintenance of capitalism
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Fuck me - if that's what you think then your moral compass is totally fucked.
 
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west didsblue said:
I’ve seen two or three who have bought into the conspiracy bullshit that the IDF is responsible for most of the deaths in southern Israel and have been minimising Hamas’s involvement.
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Not been paying much attention to that, tbh. The conspiracy is that MOST of the deaths were caused by the IDF?

Edit: Never mind. Saw the article. :)
 
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Username Required said:
Sounds like a blockade declared:

the Yemeni Armed Forces declare their intention to target all types of ships as follows:

1. Ships carrying the flag of the Zionist entity.
2. Ships operated by Israeli companies.
3. Ships owned by Israeli companies.

the Yemeni Armed Forces also call upon all countries of the world to:

A. Withdraw their citizens working within the crews of these ships.
B. Avoid shipping goods aboard these ships or engaging in transactions with them.
C. Notify your vessels to stay away from these ships.

english.almanar.com.lb

Yemeni Military Spokesman Warns: All Types of Israeli Ships Will Be Under Fire

In the context of the major support provided by the Yemeni people and armed forces to the Palestinia...
english.almanar.com.lb english.almanar.com.lb

www.reuters.com

Israel says Houthis seize ship in Red Sea, no Israelis among owners or crew

Israel said on Sunday that Yemen's Houthis had seized a British-owned and Japanese-operated cargo ship in the southern Red Sea, describing the incident as an "Iranian act of terrorism" with consequences for international maritime security.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Outlets including Times of Israel stated that the British company managing the ship is owned in part by Israeli billionaire Abraham Ungar.
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Houti Rebels occupy most of what was North Yemen. Not Yemen - there was a reason why they were separate countries for decades.
INTERACTIVE-Yemen-war-who-controls-what.png
 
M16 citeh said:
Why is a liberal democracy necessarily better than any other systems of governance, especially for third world countries? I don't see liberal democracy exactly doing wonders for us or the (black) Americans... It's main role in my eyes is the maintenance of capitalism
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What would your alternative be? It’s not a perfect system, many people take their freedom for granted until it’s not there, the very fact we can discuss contentious issues without censorship on this very forum proves that, in many countries it would lead to prison or worse

And you can protest against the government without being attacked by the state, the poor sods in Iran would love that freedom

Give me liberal democracy
 
BlueAnorak said:
No surprise. Treat a nation as a whole as Israel has been treated and they will circle the wagons.
Not all Israelis are extreme Zionists - treat them as though they are and guess what? They shift in that direction.
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The problem in Israel is the democratic system, it allows small parties disproportionate power, and leads to instability, it’s not a good advert for proportional representation

But there does need to be a bit more stick than carrot from the west, what’s going on in the West Bank is terrible and we would not support any other country doing the same
 
Ducado said:
The problem in Israel is the democratic system, it allows small parties disproportionate power, and leads to instability, it’s not a good advert for proportional representation

But there does need to be a bit more stick than carrot from the west, what’s going on in the West Bank is terrible and we would not support any other country doing the same
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The problem with strict PR with a low threshold for winning seats in Parliament (3.25%)
 
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