Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

The Future’s Blue! said:
With today‘s shouting down of those that want to see their families back, is it becoming clear that the right don’t really care about the hostages, and more about clearing Gaza, as per their bosses plan?
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It’s getting crazier in Gaza. An Israeli actor (and reservist) from the special forces Netflix drama, “Fauda”, is filmed blowing up Gazan homes in real life. A military advisor to “Fauda” has already died in a Gazan tunnel. Losses of Israeli military may be much higher than has been reported to date. RIP.
 
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Berts Neck said:
Read Goalmole's post and actually and for once without posting general rhetoric, refute anything he has said..please do so..then let us debate...people like you will bring in the lowest common denominator..but go on, read his post and if one comment is wrong call him out..if you wish to bring religion or politics,the West do so but give detail instead of posting inane comments that have no meaning. His post was the essence of this discussion.
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I’m sorry Bert, I thought I’d made it perfectly clear what I thought of his opinions?

Maybe you should read it again, disagree by all means and leave the “people like you” shit out, it’s wasted on me, heard it all before, keep your projection.

The West wont jump into bed with Hamas and Hezbollah and backs Israel whilst the Russians and Chinese have zero issue in supporting terrorists, supporting states that want to wipe Israel from the map whilst pretending to be on the side of ordinary Palestinians.

Just ask the Syrian population what the Russians and Al-Assad did for them?

Ask the Kurds what Erdogan and Turkey, another set of Hamas cheerleaders did for them?

China? Shall we mention the Uyghur genocide?

No, it’s all the wests fault, all the time.
 
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There are broadly two types on here. The first are the people who support the West and dislike China/Russia etc. If they were born Chinese or Russian they would most likely be fans of the governments. It's in their nature.
The second group are highly critical of the West and were they born in China or Russia they would be highly critical of their governments. It's in their nature.
We are not as independent as we think.
 
robbieh said:
There are broadly two types on here. The first are the people who support the West and dislike China/Russia etc. If they were born Chinese or Russian they would most likely be fans of the governments. It's in their nature.
The second group are highly critical of the West and were they born in China or Russia they would be highly critical of their governments. It's in their nature.
We are not as independent as we think.
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I'll propose there is a third type on here - those that just want to see the killing of innocents stop
 
bluethrunthru said:
I'll propose there is a third type on here - those that just want to see the killing of innocents stop
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I think everyone falls into this group, myself included. However some of us are cynics, I put myself in that bracket too. A ceasefire is inevitable but it is also inevitable that the violence will begin again. Breaking down that cycle of violence is more important than a ceasefire but I can't see how either party will ever get there.

There has to be another way but that would require breaking down into the groups that robbieh mentioned. There are fundamentally greater forces at work in these sort of conflicts. Much of what's happened has nothing to do with the politics of the Palestinians, they are just a pawn and actually Hamas are also a pawn.

As much as anyone can criticise Israel, Israel is being armed by the west but who is arming Hamas? The greater evils are those in the west and east who are using this conflict to further their own goals. I think the greater evils lie in the east purely because we have democratic means of stopping evils in the west. However, the west definitely isn't innocent and is certainly complicit in what Israel is doing.

However there is no moral authority. That lack of moral authority is represented nowhere better than in the UN where they're shouting loudly for a ceasefire but they still failed to unify to vote to condemn Hamas. They can't even reduce Russia's influence as a key member even though it annexes territory at will and brings war to countries.

Unfortunately there is no world arbitrator for peace and we've never needed one more than now.
 
blueinsa said:
I’m sorry Bert, I thought I’d made it perfectly clear what I thought of his opinions?

Maybe you should read it again, disagree by all means and leave the “people like you” shit out, it’s wasted on me, heard it all before, keep your projection.

The West wont jump into bed with Hamas and Hezbollah and backs Israel whilst the Russians and Chinese have zero issue in supporting terrorists, supporting states that want to wipe Israel from the map whilst pretending to be on the side of ordinary Palestinians.

Just ask the Syrian population what the Russians and Al-Assad did for them?

Ask the Kurds what Erdogan and Turkey, another set of Hamas cheerleaders did for them?

China? Shall we mention the Uyghur genocide?

No, it’s all the wests fault, all the time.
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The west will jump into bed with whomever it takes. Sorry but this holier than everyone else thing is a bit bullshit. We dont do it as starkl;y as China or Russia but we sure do support terrorist regimes and even groups over the years. Maybe I misunderstood though.
 
Ducado said:
Many people like myself just want peaceful coexistence and for mankind not to brought down to his\her bassist instincts
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Agreed here. Unfortunately I think its going to go the other way for a while. mass migration that is going to be caused by climate change is going to hit hard and cause a shift to even more nationalism.
 
Interesting article from Haaretz from yesterday.

https://archive.is/6tX1g

The Women Soldiers Who Warned of a Pending Hamas Attack – and Were Ignored​

Over the past year, the Israel Defense Forces’ spotters situated on the Gaza border, all women, warned that something unusual was happening. Those who survived the October 7 massacre are convinced that if it had been men sounding the alarm, things would look different today

“I told him there was going to be a war and we’re simply not ready,” she says, recalling the conversation. “That what’s happening with Hamas along the border fence is not normal. That they’re mocking the IDF, that our hands are tied and we’re not even [firing] warning shots.”
 
M16 citeh said:
Even if netanyahu doesn't have power the Zionist ideology will live on that is what really needs combating
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Not this crap again FFS, that argument is over and done with, or are you expecting the people of Israel to elect a government that is anti Israel? You need to real here all politicians in Israel will be Zionists (it’s not a dirty word) to some extent, but not all of them will want to live in a constant state or war or be hemmed in by far right religious extremism

Somehow we have to draw a line under the past and move on, our collective future relies on it
 
Ducado said:
Not this crap again FFS, that argument is over and done with, or are you expecting the people of Israel to elect a government that is anti Israel? You need to real here all politicians in Israel will be Zionists (it’s not a dirty word) to some extent, but not all of them will want to live in a constant state or war or be hemmed in by far right religious extremism

Somehow we have to draw a line under the past and move on, our collective future relies on it
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This crap? I don't see how this argument is over and done with. This ideology places one race as superior to another and uses ancient scripture to justify the violent displacement of these people. A state of Israel doesn't need to be Zionist. As things stand, Muslims and Palestinians have less rights than Jews (who aren't necessarily even from that area). A one state solution for either side (Israel or Palestine) is viable as long as the rights of all humans regardless of race or religion are enshrined in law.

For a guy that does a great impression of believing in neutrality youve really flown off the handle with this one!

You must believe that individuals actions hold more precedent than the principles of an ideology. So why didn't nazism die when Hitler died?
 
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