Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

If it has not yet hit the buffers,sorry but don't hold your breath, bit negative me ,but happy to be proved wrong
 
TinFoilHat said:
Nutter uses TikTok to threatens to kill Farage. Court case gets TV coverage.

"Peaceful protestor" filmed demanding the murder of the prime minister.

Media coverage....

*Crickets*

Nigel currently being allowed to politicise it on Sky News.
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Same Farage who stated Lucy Connellys post about wanting hotels set on fire which would murder people inside wasn't really that bad
 
Manchester_lalala said:
This is what both sides intend. There will never be peace as long as either the Palestinians or Israelis are there. It’s good that the fighting has stopped, but there will be a lot of vengeance and hatred among millions of Palestinians.
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I have said before that I think this will go on for a long time… many more decades, if not hundreds of years, as there are numerous examples through history where extremism on both sides doesn’t fade in opposition to each other for centuries because there is simply no reasoning with extremists.

It’s a shame because there are examples of how Jews and Muslims can live together: Look at the 1.8m Muslims who currently live within Israel with relatively few issues and more rights as citizens than those in Gaza and West Bank.

And look back at the longstanding Jewish and Muslim populations from the Levant, who were living beside each other for centuries. Although Jews (and Christians) had a lesser standing in Ottoman society than Muslims and there are examples over time that Jews were treated very poorly by the Arab Muslim population in the Levant, there are also examples where Arab Muslims called local Jews awlad al-bala (‘sons of the land’) and yahud awlad al-arab (‘Jewish Arabs’). There are even (even if rare, they did happen) examples of them observing each others’ religious festivals and inter-marriage.

Also, the Ottoman Empire did invite persecuted Jews from Europe into their empire. They could provide greater safety and opportunities for them than they had in Europe.

Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry is originally from the Levant (displaced after centuries of Arab Muslim conquests) but they were seen as European immigrants by the Arab population, upon this return centuries later.

They didn’t like that these European Jews were different from the local Jews they’d lived beside for centuries, how they spoke Yiddish, had a different culture which they were keen to maintain and didn’t integrate into the local customs and traditions, and didn’t like that the Ottoman Empire invited these Jews in (sound familiar to what’s going on in Britain with regards to all immigration now?).

Both Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism came into the Levant from and as a result of these outsiders. Zionism was an Ashkenazi/European/North African (the Jews who were persecuted elsewhere) idea and Palestinian Nationalism was a reaction to Zionism.

Zionist immigrant population growth saw areas become mainly Askenazi Jewish and segregated, with place names changing from Arabic into Hebrew. What was anti-immigration became anti-Zionism. There were riots and attacks where Askanazi Jews were targeted and killed by the Arab Muslim population of these areas of the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s. Then incidents like the Hebron Massacre in 1929, or the Arab Revolt against Jews in 1936, were seen.

I do sympathise with the idea of Zionism because Jews did seem to be persecuted everywhere they were and everywhere they went. If any European Jews went to the Homeland and saw how Arab Jews lived, they probably thought the idea of Jews migrating back to the Homeland was a very good idea. I can see why Zionism exists and was needed originally.

But I don’t think it will ever be workable with everything that’s gone on since extremism took over each side. Who knows what the solution is now? I don’t think a two-state idea is the solution it’s branded as. I think that it would be more workable if the whole area became one country and the Muslim population integrated into it like the 1.8m Muslims who live in Israel now. There was a fairly recent time where Palestian Nationalism had never existed (Arab Muslims were actually part of a Pan-Arab and even Pan-Syrian movement, and the idea of Palestine as a country and Palestinian Nationalism wasn’t even a ‘thing’).

The idea of two-states puts a division between the two sides that wouldn’t exist in one country. Plus with that, the Muslims from Gaza and West Bank would have more rights as full citizens of one country. I think there’d be less division because - like all human nature - people don’t act like the big man when the safety barrier separating them disappears (‘hold me back, hold me back’ mentality). They’d have to be looked after as citizens of the country.

The thing is now, extremist Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism and Islamic extremism is too entrenched in the of the region so it’s probably too difficult to diminish those extremist ideas from the scene… which is why I think it will be unsolvable for generations.
 
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.db. said:
I have said before that I think this will go on for a long time… many more decades, if not hundreds of years, as there are numerous examples through history where extremism on both sides doesn’t fade in opposition to each other for centuries because there is simply no reasoning with extremists.

It’s a shame because there are examples of how Jews and Muslims can live together: Look at the 1.8m Muslims who currently live within Israel with relatively few issues and more rights as citizens than those in Gaza and West Bank.

And look back at the longstanding Jewish and Muslim populations from the Levant, who were living beside each other for centuries. Although Jews (and Christians) had a lesser standing in Ottoman society than Muslims and there are examples over time that Jews were treated very poorly by the Arab Muslim population in the Levant, there are also examples where Arab Muslims called local Jews awlad al-bala (‘sons of the land’) and yahud awlad al-arab (‘Jewish Arabs’). There are even (even if rare, they did happen) examples of them observing each others’ religious festivals and inter-marriage.

Also, the Ottoman Empire did invite persecuted Jews from Europe into their empire. They could provide greater safety and opportunities for them than they had in Europe.

Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry is originally from the Levant (displaced after centuries of Arab Muslim conquests) but they were seen as European immigrants by the Arab population, upon this return centuries later.

They didn’t like that these European Jews were different from the local Jews they’d lived beside for centuries, how they spoke Yiddish, had a different culture which they were keen to maintain and didn’t integrate into the local customs and traditions, and didn’t like that the Ottoman Empire invited these Jews in (sound familiar to what’s going on in Britain with regards to all immigration now?).

Both Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism came into the Levant from and as a result of these outsiders. Zionism was an Ashkenazi/European/North African (the Jews who were persecuted elsewhere) idea and Palestinian Nationalism was a reaction to Zionism.

Zionist immigrant population growth saw areas become mainly Askenazi Jewish and segregated, with place names changing from Arabic into Hebrew. What was anti-immigration became anti-Zionism. There were riots and attacks where Askanazi Jews were targeted and killed by the Arab Muslim population of these areas of the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s. Then incidents like the Hebron Massacre in 1929, or the Arab Revolt against Jews in 1936, were seen.

I do sympathise with the idea of Zionism because Jews did seem to be persecuted everywhere they were and everywhere they went. If any European Jews went to the Homeland and saw how Arab Jews lived, they probably thought the idea of Jews migrating back to the Homeland was a very good idea. I can see why Zionism exists and was needed originally.

But I don’t think it will ever be workable with everything that’s gone on since extremism took over each side. Who knows what the solution is now? I don’t think a two-state idea is the solution it’s branded as. I think that it would be more workable if the whole area became one country and the Muslim population integrated into it like the 1.8m Muslims who live in Israel now. There was a fairly recent time where Palestian Nationalism had never existed (Arab Muslims were actually part of a Pan-Arab and even Pan-Syrian movement, and the idea of Palestine as a country and Palestinian Nationalism wasn’t even a ‘thing’).

The idea of two-states puts a division between the two sides that wouldn’t exist in one country. Plus with that, the Muslims from Gaza and West Bank would have more rights as full citizens of one country. I think there’d be less division because - like all human nature - people don’t act like the big man when the safety barrier separating them disappears (‘hold me back, hold me back’ mentality). They’d have to be looked after as citizens of the country.

The thing is now, extremist Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism and Islamic extremism is too entrenched in the of the region so it’s probably too difficult to diminish those extremist ideas from the scene… which is why I think it will be unsolvable for generations.
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Very good - except the idea that a two-state solution would create division. "The Jewish State" had to be majority Jewish (so would be divisive) - was that always an "extremist" view, to realise that as colonisers they would face resistance from "extremists" who already lived there?
 
Vic said:
Very good - except the idea that a two-state solution would create division. "The Jewish State" had to be majority Jewish (so would be divisive) - was that always an "extremist" view, to realise that as colonisers they would face resistance from "extremists" who already lived there?
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If Trump wants to Nobel Peace Prize, he should put Natenyahu in gaol, expel Hamas, call Israel ‘Israstine’ integrating WestBank+Gaza into one country with Israel and change the flag to incorporate a Star of David next to a a crescent Moon.
 
Israel only allowing half the aid trucks in, so the get their hostages back and start fucking about, once they have all the remains they’ll start bombing again. If it’s truely over then they should be having elections and kick that **** out of power in Israel.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Israel only allowing half the aid trucks in, so the get their hostages back and start fucking about, once they have all the remains they’ll start bombing again. If it’s truely over then they should be having elections and kick that **** out of power in Israel.
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Maybe, just maybe it’s because Hamas breached the terms of the agreement hence the reduction in aid trucks going in. Do you resent the fact that Israel wants its dead hostages back to give them a proper burial?
 
.db. said:
Hamas’ leadership are all multi-billionaires, their money will keep them going. Most don’t even live in Gaza, they live a life of luxury in places like Qatar and will have been largely unaffected by anything that has happened in the last two years.

Even any that have been killed (which isn’t many, not even half a dozen: Sinwar, Deif, Issa, Al-Arouri), their money may just go to a family member or next in-line and, even if it doesn’t, others will just rely on Iran to fund them anyway. They’ll regroup and they’ll find recruiting the next batch of soldiers very easy from the displaced angry population who now have nothing to lose, and the whole cycle will carry on for years.
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Are these the “soldiers” whose uniform only comes out during ceasefires??
 
Manc Born & Bred said:
Maybe, just maybe it’s because Hamas breached the terms of the agreement hence the reduction in aid trucks going in. Do you resent the fact that Israel wants its dead hostages back to give them a proper burial?
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No. But as I've said previously the fact that thousands of Palestinians lie dead under the rubble may well mean the dead hostages are also buried under a lot of concrete. Think about it?
 
Blue Maverick said:
Israel only allowing half the aid trucks in, so the get their hostages back and start fucking about, once they have all the remains they’ll start bombing again. If it’s truely over then they should be having elections and kick that **** out of power in Israel.
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Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
 
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