Please show us your alternative facts maps, there’s a good chap.
Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)
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Kirkstall Blue
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Eretz-Ard map of one state The united federation of Israel and Palestine
- Preserves Regional Autonomy for the Various Ethnic Groups
- Enables a fair distribution of land and resources.
- Encourages cooperation among populations that live near each other.
- Helps preserve parity between the two National Groups.
- Encourages regional economic development
Manc Born & Bred
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Try some of these, sorry they won't give you the answers you want though.
Debunked: Those Maps of 'Palestinian Land Loss' Are Misleading. Here's Why. | HonestReporting
If you've spent some time reading about the Arab-Israeli conflict on the internet, you have most likely encountered a series of maps supposedly outlining
honestreporting.com
Palestinian Loss of Land: The Myth of the 4 Maps
Ladies and gentlemen, what we're about to unravel here is nothing short of a masterclass in visual deception. These four maps, often brandished as a testament to Palestinian loss of land, may have dazzled you, but we're about to break them down, one fallacy at a time.
www.linkedin.com
Re the maps.
I think it's more salient to mention that in 1900 the area known as Palestine was made up of 92 percent Arabs and 8 percent Jews.
The constant influx of Europeans into Palestine means the split is now 50 percent each. This statistic means that Israel inevitably would have to steal land and property from the native inhabitants.
I think it's more salient to mention that in 1900 the area known as Palestine was made up of 92 percent Arabs and 8 percent Jews.
The constant influx of Europeans into Palestine means the split is now 50 percent each. This statistic means that Israel inevitably would have to steal land and property from the native inhabitants.
Try some of these, sorry they won't give you the answers you want though.
Debunked: Those Maps of 'Palestinian Land Loss' Are Misleading. Here's Why. | HonestReporting
If you've spent some time reading about the Arab-Israeli conflict on the internet, you have most likely encountered a series of maps supposedly outlining
Palestinian Loss of Land: The Myth of the 4 Maps
Ladies and gentlemen, what we're about to unravel here is nothing short of a masterclass in visual deception. These four maps, often brandished as a testament to Palestinian loss of land, may have dazzled you, but we're about to break them down, one fallacy at a time.
Ahem, I just wanted an accurate assessment, but you spoil your case by assuming you know what I want, thus propagandising. If you post a strong statement, expect people to ask for evidence/clarification. In the event, I thought the articles you offered were reasonably argued but not entirely the whole story.
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Manc Born & Bred
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Apologies, it wasn't aimed at you just a general comment.
Having read those articles and researched some of the background, I am somewhat sceptical and feel that propaganda is afoot on both sides. For example, the statement that the Negev was unoccupied is not true. Prior to 1948, it appears there were approaching anything up to 90,000 Bedouin living in the Negev, many of whom were forcibly expelled after the establishment of the state of Israel.
halfcenturyup
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"....but this was perfectly natural and nothing to be ashamed of because no one was really poor – at least no one worth speaking of."
Sorry, who’s quote is that?
MillionMilesAway
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that's from one of the Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy books - the first one, I think - presumably quoted as it refers to the extremely rich behaving excessively without concern for how it looks to others, because no-one else actually matters to them.
halfcenturyup
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Good work :)
Try some of these, sorry they won't give you the answers you want though.
Debunked: Those Maps of 'Palestinian Land Loss' Are Misleading. Here's Why. | HonestReporting
If you've spent some time reading about the Arab-Israeli conflict on the internet, you have most likely encountered a series of maps supposedly outlining
Palestinian Loss of Land: The Myth of the 4 Maps
Ladies and gentlemen, what we're about to unravel here is nothing short of a masterclass in visual deception. These four maps, often brandished as a testament to Palestinian loss of land, may have dazzled you, but we're about to break them down, one fallacy at a time.
Wow. Too much to pick at.
The idea that Arafat invented the word "Palestinian" (of people) is bunkum. The Jews in the land before Zionist colonisation were Palestinian Jews.
My Russian is almost non-existent so I don't know the original but Jabotinsky referred to the Palestinian Arabs in 1923.
And Lord Sydenham in Parliament in June 1921:
LORD SYDENHAM
From a letter which I have received from a Palestinian, I learn that the Superintendent of Police stated that some of the Jews and Jewish police were armed. This letter states that three and a half tons of dynamite were discovered in a single Jewish house in Jaffa, and that arms and ammunition were found in many other Jewish colonies. It was also stated in the Morning Post yesterday that a British eye-witness declared that he had seen a Jew throwing bombs in the street. That would look as if it had been intended to set up a terror in Palestine, such as we have seen in other places. This is not, of course, intended by the Zionists here, but it is the natural result of the introduction of many people of very uncertain character.
I am very doubtful whether the number of Bolshevists introduced into Palestine is as small as the noble Duke thinks. From another letter from a Palestinian, written on May 24 last, I may quote the following —
"A German Jew who has fought against England during the last war can come to Palestine and buy lands at once, while a Christian Englishman who has fought and shed his blood cannot buy land in Palestine. Last year, under the pretence of keeping prices low in Palestine, the export of barley, wheat and other cereals was prohibited from Palestine, though the crops were exceptionally good and in excess of the country's needs. The Zionist Committee who wanted that measure for the benefit of their immigrants had advised the Government to accept that ruinous measure. What has been the result of that measure? We have now in Palestine about 40,000 tons of wheat, barley dari, seed, beans, peas, and lentils from the old crop, and the new crop has begun, and on these 40,000 tons the poor peasants lose £ 150,000.''
I do not know if that statement is true, but I think it is a question into which the Government ought to look.
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Jews, Christians and Muslims lived relatively peacefully, side by side in the region before the Zionists started emigrating to the region in the 1800s. Although, Jews and Christians did have a lower ranking in society than Muslims in the Ottoman Empire and previous Islamic Caliphates. And there are instances where Jews were treated very poorly by Muslims in Ottoman times.
But also Arab Muslims called local long-standing Jews from the region awlad al-bala (‘sons of the land’) and yahud awlad al-arab (‘Jewish Arabs’). There are even (even if rare, they did happen) examples of them observing each others’ religious festivals and inter-marriage.
Also, the Ottoman Empire did invite persecuted Jews from Europe into their empire as they could provide greater safety and opportunities for them than they had in Europe.
Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry is originally from the Levant (displaced after centuries of Arab Muslim conquests) but they were seen as European immigrants by the Arab population, upon this return centuries later.
They didn’t like that these European Jews were different from the local Jews they’d lived beside for centuries, how they spoke Yiddish, had a different culture which they were keen to maintain and didn’t integrate into the local customs and traditions, and didn’t like that the Ottoman Empire invited these Jews in (sound familiar to what’s going on in Britain with regards to all immigration now?).
There was a fairly recent time where Palestian Nationalism had never existed. Arab Muslims were actually part of a Pan-Arab and even Pan-Syrian movement, and the idea of Palestine as a country and Palestinian Nationalism wasn’t even a ‘thing’. Both Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism came into the Levant from and as a result of these outsiders. Zionism was an Ashkenazi/European/North African (the Jews who were persecuted elsewhere) idea and Palestinian Nationalism was a situational reaction to Zionism.
Zionist immigrant population growth saw areas become mainly Askenazi Jewish and segregated, with place names changing from Arabic into Hebrew. What was anti-immigration became anti-Zionism. There were riots and attacks where Askanazi Jews were targeted and killed by the Arab Muslim population of these areas of the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s. Then incidents like the Hebron Massacre in 1929, or the Arab Revolt in 1936, were seen.
I do sympathise with the original idea of Zionism because Jews did seem to be persecuted everywhere they were and everywhere they went (Jews were expelled from England back in 1290, for example). If any European Jews went to the Homeland and saw how Arab Jews lived, they probably thought the idea of Jews migrating back to the Homeland was a good idea.
The thing is now, extremist Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism and Islamic extremism is too entrenched in the region so it’s probably too difficult to diminish those extremist ideas from the scene.
The one good thing is the example of 1.8m Muslims who currently live within Israel who have relatively few issues and more rights as citizens than those in Gaza and West Bank. But I can’t see Palestinian Nationalists accepting Gaza and West Bank becoming part of Israel, even though they’d be treated much better if they were.
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Big Joe Corrigan
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It should be all yellow, that’s what’s wrong with it.
Try some of these, sorry they won't give you the answers you want though.
Debunked: Those Maps of 'Palestinian Land Loss' Are Misleading. Here's Why. | HonestReporting
If you've spent some time reading about the Arab-Israeli conflict on the internet, you have most likely encountered a series of maps supposedly outlining
Palestinian Loss of Land: The Myth of the 4 Maps
Ladies and gentlemen, what we're about to unravel here is nothing short of a masterclass in visual deception. These four maps, often brandished as a testament to Palestinian loss of land, may have dazzled you, but we're about to break them down, one fallacy at a time.
Aren’t these maps about lad ownership, not political control? So your debunkers are only debunking a strawman they have created.
Don’t have time to look into the numbers again but vaguely recall from studying this years ago that the point the maps is making is essentially that 90% of the land of Israel/palestine was Arab owned at the end of WW2 when the state of Israel was being created
The debunkers complain about propaganda, then indulge in it themselves.
Ultimately, the maps are a waste of space: the problem is about fair dealing and, as things stand, Israel openly defies it.
Postman Pep
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The absence of a direct reply suggests you are also on Ed's ignore reality list. But tbf he did show his working out .... a few videos of brain dead 'tools of deception' reading from a script at 7k a pop.
Suppose it makes a change from literal translations of ancient scripture.
Kirkstall Blue
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Bedouin are nomadic Arabs they identify themselves as Palestinian I’ve researched and discovered the Holy Land had Christians Muslims and a small percentage of Jews until the last century.
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