Middle East Conflict

Can I ask. How do you feel abt the whole setup, Two state solution, the land, Palestinians rights, moving of the embassy, Netanyahu. Just everything basically?

I know you've had some issues with a few of these yourself as I've read some of your post in the past.

Highly unlikely everyone will live side by side peacefully one day, but I honestly just wanted your view on what you think would be any sort of solution?
I was going to set some historical context but PB has already done a better job than I could so I’ll just comment on what I think of the current situation and what should but probably won’t happen.
I think both sides are stuck with weak unimaginative leadership. Israel is in a position of strength and is probably stronger than it’s ever been and I believe it could, if the government had the will, take the initiative and make some concessions to restart the peace process. Unfortunately Netanyahu is happy to maintain the status quo because the Palestinians are probably in a weaker position than for a long time as a lot of their allies have turned their backs on them because of their support for a particular side in the Syria conflict. I believe that this is a short sighted view by Netanyahu because although he may be getting away with it for now, in the long term I am convinced that Israel will be worse off. The land swap suggestion where Israel hands over some land in exchange for the land containing the largest settlements close to the green line has been suggested before and failed because the Israeli Arabs living in that area (known as the triangle) overwhelmingly rejected being transferred to a future Palestinian state. That’s not to say it shouldn’t be tried again. The best two opportunities for a long term solution was when Rabin was in power and again ten years later when Sharon was PM. Both were strong leaders that had the ability to make concessions that would be grudgingly accepted by the extremists. Netanyahu’s core support is those extremists so he won’t even consider it.
I strongly believe that a two state solution is the only thing that could work in the long term. There are too many people on the extremes on both sides to make a one state solution viable.
Trump certainly doesn’t help. By unilaterally moving the embassy and offering unconditional support to Netanyahu makes it even less likely that concessions will be made. Netanyahu has worked out, like many world leaders, that a bit of flattery gets you what you want with Trump.
The Palestinians don’t help themselves either. Following the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, Hamas has done everything it can to keep the conflict going. If it had made more of an effort to make Gaza a decent place to live rather than expending its efforts in digging tunnels and firing rockets, there wouldn’t be the justification for Israel and Egypt to maintain the blockade. Contrary to the widespread view that Gaza is an overcrowded open air prison, the population density of Gaza City doesn’t even make it into the world top 50 and it is less densely populated than say Paris or Inner London.
So to sum up, for a long term just solution, Israel needs to make the first move and both sides need to make concessions. The best opportunity was rejected by the Palestinian side in 1999 when Barak was PM. If Israel were prepared to offer something like that deal again that may now be acceptable to the Palestinians due to their position being weaker than it was then. That offer won’t happen while Netanyahu is PM.
 
I was going to set some historical context but PB has already done a better job than I could so I’ll just comment on what I think of the current situation and what should but probably won’t happen.
I think both sides are stuck with weak unimaginative leadership. Israel is in a position of strength and is probably stronger than it’s ever been and I believe it could, if the government had the will, take the initiative and make some concessions to restart the peace process. Unfortunately Netanyahu is happy to maintain the status quo because the Palestinians are probably in a weaker position than for a long time as a lot of their allies have turned their backs on them because of their support for a particular side in the Syria conflict. I believe that this is a short sighted view by Netanyahu because although he may be getting away with it for now, in the long term I am convinced that Israel will be worse off. The land swap suggestion where Israel hands over some land in exchange for the land containing the largest settlements close to the green line has been suggested before and failed because the Israeli Arabs living in that area (known as the triangle) overwhelmingly rejected being transferred to a future Palestinian state. That’s not to say it shouldn’t be tried again. The best two opportunities for a long term solution was when Rabin was in power and again ten years later when Sharon was PM. Both were strong leaders that had the ability to make concessions that would be grudgingly accepted by the extremists. Netanyahu’s core support is those extremists so he won’t even consider it.
I strongly believe that a two state solution is the only thing that could work in the long term. There are too many people on the extremes on both sides to make a one state solution viable.
Trump certainly doesn’t help. By unilaterally moving the embassy and offering unconditional support to Netanyahu makes it even less likely that concessions will be made. Netanyahu has worked out, like many world leaders, that a bit of flattery gets you what you want with Trump.
The Palestinians don’t help themselves either. Following the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, Hamas has done everything it can to keep the conflict going. If it had made more of an effort to make Gaza a decent place to live rather than expending its efforts in digging tunnels and firing rockets, there wouldn’t be the justification for Israel and Egypt to maintain the blockade. Contrary to the widespread view that Gaza is an overcrowded open air prison, the population density of Gaza City doesn’t even make it into the world top 50 and it is less densely populated than say Paris or Inner London.
So to sum up, for a long term just solution, Israel needs to make the first move and both sides need to make concessions. The best opportunity was rejected by the Palestinian side in 1999 when Barak was PM. If Israel were prepared to offer something like that deal again that may now be acceptable to the Palestinians due to their position being weaker than it was then. That offer won’t happen while Netanyahu is PM.

Thanks for that. It does seem along with the P.B post that while Netanyahu is in power things are more than likely only going to get worse. He is def an out an out ****. And the way he is fawning over Trump to get the American embassy move is just criminal.
 
Thanks for that. It does seem along with the P.B post that while Netanyahu is in power things are more than likely only going to get worse. He is def an out an out ****. And the way he is fawning over Trump to get the American embassy move is just criminal.
I suppose the best chance of Netanyahu losing power is the ongoing criminal investigation being conducted by the Israeli police. Fortunately, Israel is a functioning democracy with an independent judiciary so there’s every chance he could be charged for receiving illegal gifts and for doing political favours in exchange for good press coverage. A previous president was imprisoned and there have been plenty of other times when the courts have gone against the government so if the evidence is there of wrongdoing, there’s every likelihood they’ll act on it.
 
43 Palestinians dead. 2000 injured. Fuckin massacre today.

Why the fuckinhell did they move the embassy. The whole fuckin world said don't move it. Except one fuckin idiot.
 
43 Palestinians dead. 2000 injured. Fuckin massacre today.

Why the fuckinhell did they move the embassy. The whole fuckin world said don't move it. Except one fuckin idiot.
There would have been violent demonstrations today anyway due to it being the 70th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel but moving the embassy has made it ten times worse.
 
43 Palestinians dead. 2000 injured. Fuckin massacre today.

Why the fuckinhell did they move the embassy. The whole fuckin world said don't move it. Except one fuckin idiot.

Are you really surprised? Did you really believe that the US ever cared about the Palestinians, human rights or international law in general? The lesson here for the few independent states of the Middle East is to acquire as many of the most powerful weapons possible. Nothing else will deter the US from acting unilaterally against their interests. Iran would be well advised to develop as many nuclear weapons as they can and as fast as they can. Nothing else can guarantee their security. The NPT is dead. The nuclear states have not even attempted to fulfil their responsibilities. The situation for the Palestinians is much more dire. They are entirely at the mercy of Israel, which acts as a "rabid dog" (in the word's of Israel's own politicians) and shows no mercy.
 
Are you really surprised? Did you really believe that the US ever cared about the Palestinians, human rights or international law in general? The lesson here for the few independent states of the Middle East is to acquire as many of the most powerful weapons possible. Nothing else will deter the US from acting unilaterally against their interests. Iran would be well advised to develop as many nuclear weapons as they can and as fast as they can. Nothing else can guarantee their security. The NPT is dead. The nuclear states have not even attempted to fulfil their responsibilities. The situation for the Palestinians is much more dire. They are entirely at the mercy of Israel, which acts as a "rabid dog" (in the word's of Israel's own politicians) and shows no mercy.

Tbf Obama never moved it. Netanyahu absoutely fuckin despised him as he didn't bow to Israel. And fair fucks to him.

But now its a whole dif ballgame. Trump is everything they could ever want.
 
I've changed the thread title as I think it warrants a debate given the current state of affairs over there.

No reason why it shouldn't be kept civil on both sides.
 
Others have summed up the situation much better than i could, so i'll just add a couple of thoughts.
Trump says Israel, as a sovereign nation has the right to do as it wishes on its own territory. Trouble is, East Jerusalem is not israeli territory, bur occupied land as a result of the 67 war. Is Trump completely ignorant of this fact or is he propagandising?
Will the west come out and roundly condemn not just the shooting but the crass policy of tne USA.and Israel?
Calls above for each side to compromise are unrealistic. The last Israeli PM to compromise was murdered by Zionist fanatics.
The two state solution is no longer viable, settlements preventing any continuous Palestinian territory.
A one state solution would require Israel to change its constitution, which declares Israel to be a Jewish country. They will never do that, too many religious factions agin it.
No idea what happens next, but there wont be significant movement in our lifetimes. David and Goliath armed camps for ever?
Brexit is easier than this.
 

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