Middle East Conflict

[Ohrodneyrodney]

Israel doesn't want a two state solution. Never has, never will. So it's irrelevant want Hamas do or don't want.

You might say its irrelevant, I think its a bloody good question.

 

[BayernMan]

Christ…this is what decades of facism does…

 

[Vic]

One of the main problems is, I think we all know the answer to that question.

That question presumably being, "what aim does Hamas have for the post war landscape and what part of Israel exists for them?"

The question is so loaded (or nonsensical). They could have all the land in the region that isn't Israel - all the area that Israel hasn't occupied. If Israel wasn't in those occupied territories, Hamas wouldn't exist.

 

[halfcenturyup]

A ridiculous stance to take from Netanyahu but what aim does Hamas have for the post war landscape and what part of Israel exists for them?

That’s the issue here, 2 sides who have now been pushed to the point where right now, there is no middle ground, no trust, just hatred and a desire to see their own side win outright with no thought whatsoever for the opposite.

That's one issue. Another is that both sides are financed and supported with materiel by parties who could solve this between themselves. Neither Netanyahu nor Hamas survive without that support.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It will be America but it’s not just two sides, it’s a sovereign nation governed by a right wing crackpot right now that can and should be changed and what should also be a sovereign nation in its own right, governed by a terrorist organisation that you simply can not negotiate with or allow to continue.

Its almost an impossible task it feels trying to solve this mess out.

I always like this statement that you can't negotiate with terrorists. Everyone does. Israel did it a few weeks ago. It's just an excuse not to look realistically at a solution.

 

[cucumberman]

You might say its irrelevant, I think its a bloody good question.

A ridiculous stance to take from Netanyahu but what aim does Hamas have for the post war landscape and what part of Israel exists for them?

That’s the issue here, 2 sides who have now been pushed to the point where right now, there is no middle ground, no trust, just hatred and a desire to see their own side win outright with no thought whatsoever for the opposite.

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1895 - 1900s
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Jewish Zionist Organisation sought for a binational state of Arab and Jews as Palestine.

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1920s
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Jewish Zionist Organisation founded ‘Brit Shalom’, a group of Jewish top-most academic, scientific and philosophic intellects, proposed by written documents the ambition of a Jew and Arab binational Palestine, and accepted by Mandatory Palestine to providing a portion of undeveloped Palestine for Jews, by the top-most academic, scientific and philosophic intellects of Palestine.

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1925
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The uprising of Jewish militia, notably the Haganah (est. 1920), the Haganah right-wing offshoot as the Irgun (est. 1931), and eventually the Lehi (est. 1940) and the Haganah righter-wing off-shoot Palmach (est.1941) were all aggressive Zionists and opposed the binational-state as agreed between Jews and Arabs. The Haganah, Irgun, Lehi, Palmach carried attacks on Arab Palestine, as well as against British Mandate Forces since 1938.

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1945 (post-WW2)
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The partition plan conducted within the span of 4-5 years (give or take pre-post WW2, the records and documents have been pored as ‘dubious brown envelope’ motion), influenced by Herzl to abandon binational state but for the State of Israel by occupational military forces, including Palmach, Haganah, Lehi and Irgun. Parts of the militia were also connected to Judenrat, the Nazi Jews who were involved in WW2 and working for the Nazis.

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1947 > 1948
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Partition Plan . Nakba . 500+ Palestinian villages and established towns decimated and Palestinians displaced. Notable massacres include:

• Khisas Massacre (by Palmach),
• Balad Syakh Massacre (by Palmach),
• Jaffa Massacre (by Lehi),
• Sasa Massacre (by Palmach),
• Deir Yassin (by Irgun, Palmach and Levi),
• Ein Zeitun Massacre (by Palmach),
• the list goes on and on for documented events

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1948 only
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With the creation of the State of Israel, The Irgun, Palmach, Lehi and Haganah formalised into the Israel Defence Force (IDF) and the massacres (point-blank and unarmed civilians massacres) continued, historical examples include:

• Tantura Massacre (by IDF, 200+ civilians killed; accounts by civilians included certain IDF soldiers did rape at least 1 young woman)
• Lydda Massacre (by IDF; 1500+ civilians including women, children killed),
• Dawayima Massacre (by IDF; 200+ civilians including women, children killed)
• Safsaf Massacre (by IDF; 70+ civilians killed, women raped,
• Saliha Massacre (by IDF, 70+ civilians killed)
• Abu Shusha Masaacre (by IDF, 70+ civilians killed, 50+ found in mass grave)
• Eilabun Massacre (by IDF, 14 civilians killed, of which 11 were Christians)
• Hula Lebanon Massacre (by IDF, 50+ civilians killed. Because of condemned by UN and Lebanon, the IDF commandant Lt. Shmuel Lahis was eventually convicted for war crimes but was punished only 7 years prison term. Furthermore, he was actually freed by Israel after serving 1 year prison).

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Also in 1948 and onwards
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The Jewish top-most academic, scientific and philosophic intellects who were against the paramilitary actions and the aggresive Zionism. They were shunned by Israel, identifying them as 2nd class Israeli citizens, and some of their high posts terminated and even exiled. A day after the creation of the State of Israel, Brit Shalom (a.k.a Ihud), disbanded and its leader named Judah Magnes resigned. The academics, scientists and philosophists who called the IDF massacres (listed above) as violent crimes and dangerous precedents, were then themselves labelled as traitors of Israel.

The new Zionist Organisation was re-established, with tenets and principles in favour of military might, which is a contradiction of the original Zionist Organisation (1891, 1905) as motioned by Brit Shalom and Ihud in favour of a pacifist might with Arabs as the ethical masters of the Arab Middle East. Two prominent pacifists were Yosif Abilea and Natan Hofshi.

The Zionist press, in UK, published news that condemned the Ihud, as well as other Zionest papers outside of Israel.


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Is Hamas similar to ISIS
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Hamas was founded in 1987 as resistant militia; to defend against the Haganah, Lehi, Palmach, Irgun objectives (aka settlers and right wing). At the same time, having a second militia after Fatah spurred Israel to realise a non-viable two-state solution. Depending on who are in the Israel cabinet over the years, Hamas retaliates as resistant militia. As expected, an Israel cabinet that is extreme far-right (Smotrich, Ben Gvir, the MKs) and conducting atrocious conduct will retaliate atrocious conduct in return.

ISIS was founded in 2013 with the objective of command and conquer. Hamas was fighting to defend against ISIS influence, before the western world know who ISIS is.

 

[The blue phantom]

So Israel have basically told the Americans to fuck off and we'll do what we want, "You just keep sending us missiles and leave it to us"

 

[cucumberman]

In reference to the above list of massacres by then the Haganah, Irgun, Lehi, Palmach and eventually the IDF, influenced and indoctrinated by their invicibility of killing Arab Palestinians…

…this current war is a mirror vision of the Zionism ethos of the past 100+ years.

 

[Blue and true]

So Israel have basically told the Americans to fuck off and we'll do what we want, "You just keep sending us missiles and leave it to us"

At which point the US need to stop supplying. They're the puppet masters in all this and they need to start pulling strings.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Christ…this is what decades of facism does…

That doesn't represent the isrealis.