Middle East Conflict

[Bigga]

Shouty kids making a difference...



Well done. Keep up the pressure.

 

[metalblue]

There has never been an Israeli government like that though. Sure we are at the extreme end here but Netanyahu has been in the hot seat for the majority of the last 28 years. People will inevitably cite Rabin and the Oslo process but it's worth remembering that until last year the highest rate of West Bank settlement occurred during the "peace process". 20 odd years dominated by various RW coalitions with Netanyahu at the helm and only now are they exceeding the rate of expansionism and ethnic cleansing as the so called moderates.

The good people of Israel have to find a government like that. And the good people of Palestine have to reciprocate.

Whatever they have been doing for the last 80 years give or take hasn’t really worked and the very definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

 

[metalblue]

There will never be peace. It just isn't possible. The Zionists won't budge, they won't give up the law of return, they won't cede territory. There's too much hate for people to live side by side and the two state solution is just a fantasy to let them fudge it and kick the can further down the road.
I choose the Palestinians.

If Palestinians were to be moved to a new country there would just be a new PLO conducting overseas terrorist activities as previously happened in Jordan.

Israel has made enemies of almost all it's neighbours.

I don't have any patience for a society that would drag the world into WW3 and use nuclear weapons as described in the Samson option.

I suspect you are right regarding a complete void of trust and an absolute hatred existing. It needs to change as the alternative is unthinkable.

The current massacre will probably end with some sort of uneasy ceasefire and the cycle will repeat.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Adolf would have loved this post.

Aren't you the bloke who believes theres a White Genocide but approves of the Palestinian genocide?

Sorry Caspar, I can't afford the cost of communicating via a psychic medium so this will be the last message.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I suspect you are right regarding a complete void of trust and an absolute hatred existing. It needs to change as the alternative is unthinkable.

The current massacre will probably end with some sort of uneasy ceasefire and the cycle will repeat.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a way of coming back.

How can the Palestinians trust any Israeli government to make honest promises and stick to them?

There's no direct comparison in history but if you look at conflicts involving brutality all of what you regard as successful resolutions required occupation by peace keepers or police states and some of these conflicts are ongoing as cold conflicts after a fudge.

I didn’t always believe this. But that's the unfortunate reality.

 

[metalblue]

Unfortunately I don't think there is a way of coming back.

How can the Palestinians trust any Israeli government to make honest promises and stick to them?

There's no direct comparison in history but if you look at conflicts involving brutality all of what you regard as successful resolutions required occupation by peace keepers or police states and some of these conflicts are ongoing as cold conflicts after a fudge.

I didn’t always believe this. But that's the unfortunate reality.

You’ve only got to look at Ireland to see how hard peace is in those conditions and that looks like a Sunday day out compared the violence we’ve witnessed.

It’s also not just about Palestinians trusting Israelis. If I was an Israeli I’d be asking myself how can I trust a Palestinian to not exact revenge on me or my family for what we have done to them. Because I’d want to extract revenge if I was in their shoes.

For me true and lasting peace might only be realised if they abandon Israel and Palestine as concepts of state and call the land that both currently occupy something else then share that land as one, not living in sectarian pockets but living next door to each other. A two state solution is just avoiding the hard decisions and we’ve seen how uneasy the peace can be in such a case - like you say minimum of peacekeepers if it all goes really well.

The problem with all of that is it’s not just about what normal Israelis and Palestinians want. Too many players facilitating extremists and too many extreme beliefs ready to be facilitated.

Meanwhile thousands more innocent people are going to die.

 

[inbetween]

8 year old Palestinians routinely carry pagers do they?

Let me guess? The Hamas ministry of truth told you it was 8 year olds targeted?

Blimey, I didn't know pagers even still existed.

There's obviously a good reason why they were being used which goes alongside the reason why the Israelis clearly had them all marked out...

 

[bluethrunthru]

I assume that the explosives were put in the pagers with the knowledge/acceptance of Motorola the makers and US Intel Services. If not I'd expect both institutions to disown the actions pronto.

Predictably there is a slide in Motorola share values overnight and these actions will drive users to Chinese made devices. something that I am sure on many levels is not desirable of the United States interests

 

[Dubai Blue]

I'm guessing Israel would also have had the technology and expertise for them to track the locations of these pagers and read all messages being sent on them?

I would have thought from a counter terrorism point of view this would have been much more useful in the long-term rather than a one off publicity stunt making them go fizz bang and cause a few minor injuries.

They're one-way pagers, so they only receive messages and don't send anything out. So they theoretically can't be tracked, which is why Hezbollah ditched phones for them in the first place.

 

[hcblue95]

Different cheek of the exact same arsehole.

You think 8 year olds wonder around with pagers still?

You don't think that detonating hundreds of pagers across the country could have inadvertently killed an 8 year old girl? Or you just don't care?