Middle East Conflict

[Vic]

Nails it

That bit near the end, "We are (more) developed than them", encapsulates some of the arrogance (if not racism) of early Zionists, who thought the Arab population would be grateful for the economic advantages of having Jews in charge. As we have some new pro Israeli posters who missed the thread's early lessons on Zionist history, let's just go to Jabotinsky ("The Iron Wall") who knew it wouldn't be like that.

Arabs Not Fools ​

This is equally true of the Arabs. Our Peace-mongers are trying to persuade us that the Arabs are either fools, whom we can deceive by masking our real aims, or that they are corrupt and can be bribed to abandon to us their claim to priority in Palestine , in return for cultural and economic advantages. I repudiate this conception of the Palestinian Arabs. Culturally they are five hundred years behind us, they have neither our endurance nor our determination; but they are just as good psychologists as we are, and their minds have been sharpened like ours by centuries of fine-spun logomachy. We may tell them whatever we like about the innocence of our aims, watering them down and sweetening them with honeyed words to make them palatable, but they know what we want, as well as we know what they do not want. They feel at least the same instinctive jealous love of Palestine, as the old Aztecs felt for ancient Mexico, and the Sioux for their rolling Prairies.
To imagine, as our Arabophiles do, that they will voluntarily consent to the realisation of Zionism, in return for the moral and material conveniences which the Jewish colonist brings with him, is a childish notion, which has at bottom a kind of contempt for the Arab people; it means that they despise the Arab race, which they regard as a corrupt mob that can be bought and sold, and are willing to give up their fatherland for a good railway system.​

No "Misunderstanding"​

There is only one thing the Zionists want, and it is that one thing that the Arabs do not want, for that is the way by which the Jews would gradually become the majority, and then a Jewish Government would follow automatically, and the future of the Arab minority would depend on the goodwill of the Jews; and a minority status is not a good thing, as the Jews themselves are never tired of pointing out. So there is no "misunderstanding".
The Zionists want only one thing, Jewish immigration; and this Jewish immigration is what the Arabs do not want.
....
Colonisation carries its own explanation, the only possible explanation, unalterable and as clear as daylight to every ordinary Jew and every ordinary Arab.
Colonisation can have only one aim, and Palestine Arabs cannot accept this aim. It lies in the very nature of things, and in this particular regard nature cannot be changed.​

Zionism Moral and Just​

Two brief remarks:
In the first place, if anyone objects that this point of view is immoral, I answer: It is not true: either Zionism is moral and just ,or it is immoral and unjust. But that is a question that we should have settled before we became Zionists. Actually we have settled that question, and in the affirmative.
We hold that Zionism is moral and just. And since it is moral and just, justice must be done, no matter whether Joseph or Simon or Ivan or Achmet agree with it or not.
There is no other morality.​

Eventual Agreement ​

In the second place, this does not mean that there cannot be any agreement with the Palestine Arabs. What is impossible is a voluntary agreement. As long as the Arabs feel that there is the least hope of getting rid of us, they will refuse to give up this hope in return for either kind words or for bread and butter, because they are not a rabble, but a living people. And when a living people yields in matters of such a vital character it is only when there is no longer any hope of getting rid of us, because they can make no breach in the iron wall. Not till then will they drop their extremist leaders, whose watchword is "Never!" And the leadership will pass to the moderate groups, who will approach us with a proposal that we should both agree to mutual concessions. Then we may expect them to discuss honestly practical questions, such as a guarantee against Arab displacement, or equal rights for Arab citizen, or Arab national integrity.
And when that happens, I am convinced that we Jews will be found ready to give them satisfactory guarantees, so that both peoples can live together in peace, like good neighbours.
But the only way to obtain such an agreement, is the iron wall, which is to say a strong power in Palestine that is not amenable to any Arab pressure. In other words, the only way to reach an agreement in the future is to abandon all idea of seeking an agreement at present.​

Hopelessly optimistic...

 

[The blue phantom]

Western political hypocrisy.

The rest is ruled by the $. As long as the money is rolling in certain countries don't give a fuck. When it starts to run out that's when Lockheed Martin get militaries to use their weapons for a "just" war.

Worship the dollar over humanity.

Shit show of an attitude.

Nearly 90% of Congress is paid by Aipac. Absolutely fuckin criminal that this still go's on.

 

[robbieh]

A “Loyal Little Ulster”: Why and How the UK and US Shaped Israel to Create Endless Conflict — 1/200

In creating Israel the British were following a policy of divide-and-rule to create an outpost as a way of projecting power into the Arab world and its oilfields. In practical terms British power could only be projected through the maintenance of immanent or actual armed hostility. The success of th

www.1of200.nz

Very interesting read. It's easy to forget Britain's role in this.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

How does this sound as a summary of what the Palestinians might be thinking?
"The total annihilation of Israel is the only way to achieve lasting peace in the region, as the Israeli extremists will.not desist until they have fully destroyed the Palestinians."

I did say hamas and hezbollah.

Now you carefully said the annihilation of Hamas and Hezbollah, but Smotrich denies that there are "Palestinians" (except it seems Jews who had lived quietly in Jerusalem for centuries - before the Zionist colonial enterprise). What's your final solution for the Palestinians?

I added hamas and hezbollah with purpose and intent. Your mind reading skills are nothing short of par excellent, such a shame about the blinkered viewpoints you and many others on here appear to hold. I am not a jew, nor particularly political, holding zero beef with the Palastinian or Lebananese contingency. Nor am I happy with the settler land grabs in the west bank or the treatment being metered out to them or the tragic waste of human life on both sides.

Re your final solution quip: A solution for the Palestinians is to go seek out a different government, that can negotiate a two state solution and lasting peace, for the good of all of the region, not one that is hell bent on the extermination of Jews. It's been mentioned before on here, dialogue will be the only way for the killing to stop.

What a diplomatic way for hamas to reach this endearing peace, by spilling over the border and torturing raping and butchering 1200 human beings. From what I saw on that fateful day, I kinda got the impression lots of the Gazans appeared to be supporting hamas actions, seen by their rapturous applause and cheering, as the cowardly ones came back over the border with their spoils.

And what did the wonderful hezbollah do to further the cause of peace, after such a disgraceful massacre by their mates. Yep they retorted by indiscriminatly lobbing rockets in the thousands for 11 months, hitting civilian infrastructure and killing and maiming israeli civilians. The children at the playing field at madi shami springs instantly to mind.

So now I guess it's hezbolla's time to face the reckoning. Whats your opinion of the Israeli army phoning up their civilians and asking them to leave before their strikes hit the target. I have to confess I've not heard of that before in a war zone. Its refreshing to see, maybe Hezza and hamas could follow suit?

Do you really not know the history of Zionist terrorism to achieve their ends? Or the prior terrorist activities of Israeli leaders who, like Arafat, were prepared at least to try and make peace?

arafat was an animal, a thug and a gangster. Not really apt to mention him in sentence with the word peace.

Or of Netanyahu's involvement in scuppering the prospect of peace? "Strong and decisive"? Just what every fascist leader claims to be.

Strong and decisive, yes I think he is. If as you say, Netanyahu is a facist, give me your take on hamas and hezbolla. What catagory would you label them. Freedom fighters, the oppressed ones, jew killers, child killers, kidnappers. I dont know how to label them Victor, maybe as our goverment does and as a prescribed terrosist organization.

And finally whats your take on the hezzbollah leaders demise? Will it be good for peace in the region to have such a harbiger of evil removed from circulation. I think it will, and a thoroughly unpleasant chap he was for sure.

 

[The blue phantom]

I did say hamas and hezbollah.

I added hamas and hezbollah with purpose and intent. Your mind reading skills are nothing short of par excellent, such a shame about the blinkered viewpoints you and many others on here appear to hold. I am not a jew, nor particularly political, holding zero beef with the Palastinian or Lebananese contingency. Nor am I happy with the settler land grabs in the west bank or the treatment being metered out to them or the tragic waste of human life on both sides.

Re your final solution quip: A solution for the Palestinians is to go seek out a different government, that can negotiate a two state solution and lasting peace, for the good of all of the region, not one that is hell bent on the extermination of Jews. It's been mentioned before on here, dialogue will be the only way for the killing to stop.

What a diplomatic way for hamas to reach this endearing peace, by spilling over the border and torturing raping and butchering 1200 human beings. From what I saw on that fateful day, I kinda got the impression lots of the Gazans appeared to be supporting hamas actions, seen by their rapturous applause and cheering, as the cowardly ones came back over the border with their spoils.

And what did the wonderful hezbollah do to further the cause of peace, after such a disgraceful massacre by their mates. Yep they retorted by indiscriminatly lobbing rockets in the thousands for 11 months, hitting civilian infrastructure and killing and maiming israeli civilians. The children at the playing field at madi shami springs instantly to mind.

So now I guess it's hezbolla's time to face the reckoning. Whats your opinion of the Israeli army phoning up their civilians and asking them to leave before their strikes hit the target. I have to confess I've not heard of that before in a war zone. Its refreshing to see, maybe Hezza and hamas could follow suit?

arafat was an animal, a thug and a gangster. Not really apt to mention him in sentence with the word peace.

Strong and decisive, yes I think he is. If as you say, Netanyahu is a facist, give me your take on hamas and hezbolla. What catagory would you label them. Freedom fighters, the oppressed ones, jew killers, child killers, kidnappers. I dont know how to label them Victor, maybe as our goverment does and as a prescribed terrosist organization.

And finally whats your take on the hezzbollah leaders demise? Will it be good for peace in the region to have such a harbiger of evil removed from circulation. I think it will, and a thoroughly unpleasant chap he was for sure.

Just fuckin lol. I'm not a Jew and I have no beef with the Palestinians. Yet you've posted post after post about how supreme Netanyahu is.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

Just fuckin lol. I'm not a Jew and I have no beef with the Palestinians. Yet you've posted post after post about how supreme Netanyahu is.

Youve been drinking again havn't you Mr Phantom. Supreme is normally a language reserved for the mad mullers as in .. supreme leader. I said he was strong and decisive. I also think he is the right man in place to deal with the fookwits that seek to destroy the state of Israel. Just lol ..

 

[Vic]

I did say hamas and hezbollah.

I added hamas and hezbollah with purpose and intent. Your mind reading skills are nothing short of par excellent, such a shame about the blinkered viewpoints you and many others on here appear to hold. I am not a jew, nor particularly political, holding zero beef with the Palastinian or Lebananese contingency. Nor am I happy with the settler land grabs in the west bank or the treatment being metered out to them or the tragic waste of human life on both sides.

Re your final solution quip: A solution for the Palestinians is to go seek out a different government, that can negotiate a two state solution and lasting peace, for the good of all of the region, not one that is hell bent on the extermination of Jews. It's been mentioned before on here, dialogue will be the only way for the killing to stop.

What a diplomatic way for hamas to reach this endearing peace, by spilling over the border and torturing raping and butchering 1200 human beings. From what I saw on that fateful day, I kinda got the impression lots of the Gazans appeared to be supporting hamas actions, seen by their rapturous applause and cheering, as the cowardly ones came back over the border with their spoils.

And what did the wonderful hezbollah do to further the cause of peace, after such a disgraceful massacre by their mates. Yep they retorted by indiscriminatly lobbing rockets in the thousands for 11 months, hitting civilian infrastructure and killing and maiming israeli civilians. The children at the playing field at madi shami springs instantly to mind.

So now I guess it's hezbolla's time to face the reckoning. Whats your opinion of the Israeli army phoning up their civilians and asking them to leave before their strikes hit the target. I have to confess I've not heard of that before in a war zone. Its refreshing to see, maybe Hezza and hamas could follow suit?

arafat was an animal, a thug and a gangster. Not really apt to mention him in sentence with the word peace.

Strong and decisive, yes I think he is. If as you say, Netanyahu is a facist, give me your take on hamas and hezbolla. What catagory would you label them. Freedom fighters, the oppressed ones, jew killers, child killers, kidnappers. I dont know how to label them Victor, maybe as our goverment does and as a prescribed terrosist organization.

And finally whats your take on the hezzbollah leaders demise? Will it be good for peace in the region to have such a harbiger of evil removed from circulation. I think it will, and a thoroughly unpleasant chap he was for sure.

My take on Hamas?

Promoted by your hero Netanyahu to weaken the PLO who wanted peace.

He wanted this.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Two Gun Bob]

My take on Hamas?

Promoted by your hero Netanyahu to weaken the PLO who wanted peace.

He wanted this.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

He's not my hero Victor, a somewhat suprising response because as a rule of thumb your normally an intelligent poster. I will leave it there with my post @15,414 as I'm listening to music tonight. Then I am going to Pwllhelli, Its a place in northern Wales, but thats not important right now.

 

[bluethrunthru]

7TH Oct is going to be a bloodbath isn't it?

 

[york away to this!]

BBC news playing the poor little girl in hospital card.
Don't let terrorist cunts run your country.