Middle East Conflict

[SebastianBlue]

This meme, due to it’s visual composition, hits differently in this thread.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Us, America and Israel vie for the sickest Democracies on planet earth

 

[BayernMan]

“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”

 

[Crouchinho]

I've also stayed out of the thread for the same reason and it's hard to disagree with much in this post. This situation is now just about Netanyahu and his grip on power. I very much doubt the West can do much.

I can't understand how some seemingly intelligent left-leaning posters can seemingly have common cause with a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist group, who are homophobic, undemocratic, don't allow freedom of expression or religion, treat women as second-class citizens, and who use the citizens they supposedly represent as human shields.

I think sensible thinking has been thrown out the window with this war.

Its fuelled by social justice warriors and a younger generation. Most of it is faux outrage. They scream for the people of Palestine yet vote for a party that has been funding the war. The Biden administration funded 26 billion dollars for Israel a few months ago and last week sent more jets and ammo that way.

It's the quiet left leaning people who are the most honest, yet won't speak because of being attacked by their left leaning counterparts. The boomer, Gen X and millennials remember the 9/11 attacks very well. They see how the middle East and Palestine celebrated the towers coming down. Only Israel showed support for the States.

This has lived long in the memory for a lot of Americans, right and left sided. Some of these major news channels who claim to be left leaning like to play both sides of the fence with their anti Islam and then anti semite to stir up people's emotions.

The ones out their protesting are idiots. One week they're waving placards Free Palestine, next week rubbing themselves off over a party who funds it. Also, cheering on a terrorist organisation on top of that. You cannot make it up.

My biggest concern is how much land will be given back to the Palestinian people? Will a puppet government be put in? Will they recognise them as a country?

Just when a corner is turned its more bloodshed and more generations of hate to follow. An absolute shit show.

 

[BayernMan]

 

[halfcenturyup]

I think sensible thinking has been thrown out the window with this war.

Its fuelled by social justice warriors and a younger generation. Most of it is faux outrage. They scream for the people of Palestine yet vote for a party that has been funding the war. The Biden administration funded 26 billion dollars for Israel a few months ago and last week sent more jets and ammo that way.

It's the quiet left leaning people who are the most honest, yet won't speak because of being attacked by their left leaning counterparts. The boomer, Gen X and millennials remember the 9/11 attacks very well. They see how the middle East and Palestine celebrated the towers coming down. Only Israel showed support for the States.

This has lived long in the memory for a lot of Americans, right and left sided. Some of these major news channels who claim to be left leaning like to play both sides of the fence with their anti Islam and then anti semite to stir up people's emotions.

The ones out their protesting are idiots. One week they're waving placards Free Palestine, next week rubbing themselves off over a party who funds it. Also, cheering on a terrorist organisation on top of that. You cannot make it up.

My biggest concern is how much land will be given back to the Palestinian people? Will a puppet government be put in? Will they recognise them as a country?

Just when a corner is turned its more bloodshed and more generations of hate to follow. An absolute shit show.

So much to unpack in that. But what corner did you think has been turned?

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

It's the quiet left leaning people who are the most honest, yet won't speak because of being attacked by their left leaning counterparts. The boomer, Gen X and millennials remember the 9/11 attacks very well. They see how the middle East and Palestine celebrated the towers coming down. Only Israel showed support for the States.

When 911 occurred, due to the time difference, it was night time here. The next morning, our middle school headmaster gave a speech to the whole school, saying that 9/11 was a tragedy for humanity, but it would also give our country a breathing time. The US would focus its strategic efforts on the Middle East in the next few years and not spend a lot of time trying to contain China.
（And my classmates celebrated it too, sorry for that...）

 

[halfcenturyup]

When 911 occurred, due to the time difference, it was night time here. The next morning, our middle school headmaster gave a speech to the whole school, saying that 9/11 was a tragedy for humanity, but it would also give our country a breathing time. The US would focus its strategic efforts on the Middle East in the next few years and not spend a lot of time trying to contain China.
（And my classmates celebrated it too, sorry for that...）

The world is a complicated place. If only everybody else shared western values it would be a much easier world to "manage".

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

The world is a complicated place. If only everybody else shared western values it would be a much easier world to "manage".

Yes but the good values, not the bad ones...
I think the realistic views are the best tools to unite the people together.
And nowadays , I think many young people in the west , yes they are kind and sympathetic, which is great, but also a little bit of naive.

 

[SebastianBlue]

So much to unpack in that. But what corner did you think has been turned?

This is an especially diplomatic response. Perhaps we should appoint you Bluemoon’s Middle East Peace Czar!

 

[Vic]

I think sensible thinking has been thrown out the window with this war.

Its fuelled by social justice warriors and a younger generation. Most of it is faux outrage. They scream for the people of Palestine yet vote for a party that has been funding the war. The Biden administration funded 26 billion dollars for Israel a few months ago and last week sent more jets and ammo that way.

It's the quiet left leaning people who are the most honest, yet won't speak because of being attacked by their left leaning counterparts. The boomer, Gen X and millennials remember the 9/11 attacks very well. They see how the middle East and Palestine celebrated the towers coming down. Only Israel showed support for the States.

This has lived long in the memory for a lot of Americans, right and left sided. Some of these major news channels who claim to be left leaning like to play both sides of the fence with their anti Islam and then anti semite to stir up people's emotions.

The ones out their protesting are idiots. One week they're waving placards Free Palestine, next week rubbing themselves off over a party who funds it. Also, cheering on a terrorist organisation on top of that. You cannot make it up.

My biggest concern is how much land will be given back to the Palestinian people? Will a puppet government be put in? Will they recognise them as a country?

Just when a corner is turned its more bloodshed and more generations of hate to follow. An absolute shit show.

Well, forgive me for being old enough to be outraged about 9/11, October 7th, and Israeli policy toward Palestinians before and especially since October 7th. This must be one of the daftest posts in the thread.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Yes but the good values, not the bad ones...
I think the realistic views are the best tools to unite the people together.
And nowadays , I think many young people in the west , yes they are kind and sympathetic, which is great, but also a little bit of naive.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I know it's not always possible to tell, especially if English isn't a first language.

What I wanted to say is that people on here, and in the west in general, apply western values, good and bad, to things that happen in the rest of the world, irrespective of the points of view of other cultures.

There is much good in western values, of course. But looking at every situation through the lens of western values won't necessarily give the most appropriate view. It has to be tempered by an understanding of the different cultural viewpoints.

 

[halfcenturyup]

This is an especially diplomatic response. Perhaps we should appoint you Bluemoon’s Middle East Peace Czar!

That would be an exceedingly bad idea.

As you know :)

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I know it's not always possible to tell, especially if English isn't a first language.

What I wanted to say is that people on here, and in the west in general, apply western values, good and bad, to things that happen in the rest of the world, irrespective of the points of view of other cultures.

There is much good in western values, of course. But looking at every situation through the lens of western values won't necessarily give the most appropriate view. It has to be tempered by an understanding of the different cultural viewpoints.

I know it's sarcastic. But I didn't know what does it mean exactly.
It could be:
1 It's easy to manage young people in the west because they are too naive.
2 easy to manage other countries like China, or Germany(you know the "green party" and just stop oil things)
3 If the western countries all share the same value, it's also easy for China to gain an extra advantage, because the liberal value is not very good at manufacturing industry. And that's another kind of "manage".
Sorry for my broken English. And I agree with your post , different cultures, people should have a open mind.

 

[inbetween]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I know it's not always possible to tell, especially if English isn't a first language.

What I wanted to say is that people on here, and in the west in general, apply western values, good and bad, to things that happen in the rest of the world, irrespective of the points of view of other cultures.

There is much good in western values, of course. But looking at every situation through the lens of western values won't necessarily give the most appropriate view. It has to be tempered by an understanding of the different cultural viewpoints.

This is why peace in the Middle East is impossible. It won't be possible because there is no democracy and countries are reigned by the likes of monarchs and unelected leaders who honestly couldn't care less if their people suffer. The nation state and the power of government is overarching above any citizen, that's the problem.

You only have to look at Iran, it has a hateful government that is attacking a country hundreds of miles away on an issue that actually has nothing to do with the Iranian people. Iran should be (and once was) a fantastic democracy and economic powerhouse which rivals the major Arab nations. Instead its government and ideology chooses ruin.

There is no way of changing this without revolution and the people of those countries have to choose it but it's unlikely. The same thing is needed in Russia but again that's even more unlikely. We can view this in a western lens of course but you only have to ask where would you rather live? The answer is obvious and it's obvious to the people of those countries given the amount of refugees and immigration to western Europe.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I know it's sarcastic. But I didn't know what does it mean exactly.
It could be:
1 It's easy to manage young people in the west because they are too naive.
2 easy to manage other countries like China, or Germany(you know the "green party" and just stop oil things)
3 If the western countries all share the same value, it's also easy for China to gain an extra advantage, because the liberal value is not very good at manufacturing industry. And that's another kind of "manage".
Sorry for my broken English. And I agree with your post , different cultures, people should have a open mind.

None of the above. But not for here :)

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

None of the above. But not for here :)

Oh I know, you mean I keep repeating the same "western media, western value" things, again and again.
Right?
I have indeed repeat it too many times. It's Boring. I know.

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

None of the above. But not for here :)

Firstly, make a judgment on whether he is on your side. If not, say something opposite. For example "I like your shirt "means" your shirt is really ugly ". "You performed well and should continue practicing "means" you have no talent at all, continuing to practice is just a waste of time ". I guess this is a characteristic of British culture?

 

[halfcenturyup]

This is why peace in the Middle East is impossible. It won't be possible because there is no democracy and countries are reigned by the likes of monarchs and unelected leaders who honestly couldn't care less if their people suffer. The nation state and the power of government is overarching above any citizen, that's the problem.

You only have to look at Iran, it has a hateful government that is attacking a country hundreds of miles away on an issue that actually has nothing to do with the Iranian people. Iran should be (and once was) a fantastic democracy and economic powerhouse which rivals the major Arab nations. Instead its government and ideology chooses ruin.

There is no way of changing this without revolution and the people of those countries have to choose it but it's unlikely. The same thing is needed in Russia but again that's even more unlikely. We can view this in a western lens of course but you only have to ask where would you rather live? The answer is obvious and it's obvious to the people of those countries given the amount of refugees and immigration to western Europe.

A lot to unpack in that one, too. If only I had the strength.

 

[FlemishDuck]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I know it's not always possible to tell, especially if English isn't a first language.

What I wanted to say is that people on here, and in the west in general, apply western values, good and bad, to things that happen in the rest of the world, irrespective of the points of view of other cultures.

There is much good in western values, of course. But looking at every situation through the lens of western values won't necessarily give the most appropriate view. It has to be tempered by an understanding of the different cultural viewpoints.

That is so, and i can attest that this can be a complex issue for cultural relations. But the thing is, our opinions in the west to a degree matter. Israel is to a great degree dependent on the relation it has with the west, a good and dare i say "supportive" relation has been very helpful for Israel in the past and that how in part your nation and a few others have had a fair hand in bringing the situation to what it is today (not judging) so crucially its hardly illogical that opinions in the west might want to influence the matter because it can and has done so before.

If country's in the west would take a harder stance against Israel, even to the point of threatening with sanctions, then it would have quite a lot of leverage and likely be able to influence the matter significantly. Thats a hypothetical choice but one people in the west can take.

You could say its a sort of ethical dilemma. Sometimes "breaking up a fight" is an ethical thing to do even as an outsider to the matter, and from an utilitarian perspective that is the more true "when you can do it easily", withought that this necessarily even has to have such bad consequences so to speak. In oter instances maybe they would end the UN blue helmets in for similar things albeit that its a "UN matter " to decide then.