Middle East Conflict

Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
So you’ve got no problem with full scale war? Millions displaced or dead?

I also question why you would want to support dictatorships like Iran who their own people don’t want in charge.

A further escalation from either side would be catastrophic.
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You really need a historical lesson on the impact of regime change.

Your learning, in fact, is "Oct 7th" as a microcosm of your whole understanding when it comes to Iranian position, as it currently stands.

In short, what Iran is now is all you see, but not how it got there.

I've posted this before on how Iran's leadership came to be. It's up to you to look into history.
 
inbetween said:
Iran are out of their depth. Israel used stealth fighter jets to bomb and kill the Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh right in the centre of Tehran. Imagine if Ukraine could just fly fighter jets to Moscow, bomb Putin and then fly back without reply. The difference in military capability and technology is insane.

There's a good reason why Iran has been trying to acquire ballistic nuclear weapons. It is too far for fighter jet attacks and Israel would obviously win that fight anyway. Navy attacks are impossible due to the western presence in the region.

This leaves a ground war which is never going to happen because the geography makes a land invasion impossible. There are then just nuisance attacks through drones but that has very limited utility and Israel has its own defenses against that.

Iran are powerless and it is impossible for them to start a war let alone have any chance of winning. The curveball will always be nuclear weapons but Israel has a good history of let's say making Iranian nuclear scientists disappear and causing certain things to randomly blow up from time to time...
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No, no, no. We were told Iran and Hamas are an existential threat to Israel because of ........ words ........ , as justification for what is going on in Gaza. What has changed?
 
halfcenturyup said:
No, no, no. We were told Iran and Hamas are an existential threat to Israel because of ........ words ........ , as justification for what is going on in Gaza. What has changed?
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Well they potentially are an existential threat, Iran has a state goal of the destruction of Israel, they want to acquire nuclear weapons for that reason. Currently Iran hasn't got the means to do what it wants to do.

Hamas and Yemeni Houthis similarly have a goal of the destruction of Israel and they haven't got the means to do it either.

It's just untrue that Hamas, Iran etc all just want a cozy peaceful solution and Israel are the bastards. Obviously the Israeli regime doesn't want peace either but that's why they're blowing each other up, Israel is just far better equipped to do that.

Rhetoric is not the difference between the two parties, military capability is the difference.
 
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inbetween said:
Well they potentially are an existential threat, Iran has a state goal of the destruction of Israel, they want to acquire nuclear weapons for that reason. Currently Iran hasn't got the means to do what it wants to do.

Hamas and Yemeni Houthis similarly have a goal of the destruction of Israel and they haven't got the means to do it either.

It's just untrue that Hamas, Iran etc all just want a cozy peaceful solution and Israel are the bastards. Obviously the Israeli regime doesn't want peace either but that's why they're blowing each other up, Israel is just far better equipped to do that.

Rhetoric is not the difference between the two parties, military capability is the difference.
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So we agree there is currently no existential threat to Israel from anywhere?
 
inbetween said:
Well they potentially are an existential threat, Iran has a state goal of the destruction of Israel, they want to acquire nuclear weapons for that reason. Currently Iran hasn't got the means to do what it wants to do.

Hamas and Yemeni Houthis similarly have a goal of the destruction of Israel and they haven't got the means to do it either.

It's just untrue that Hamas, Iran etc all just want a cozy peaceful solution and Israel are the bastards. Obviously the Israeli regime doesn't want peace either but that's why they're blowing each other up, Israel is just far better equipped to do that.

Rhetoric is not the difference between the two parties, military capability is the difference.
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Maybe we should stop equipping them then.
 
inbetween said:
Well they potentially are an existential threat, Iran has a state goal of the destruction of Israel, they want to acquire nuclear weapons for that reason. Currently Iran hasn't got the means to do what it wants to do.

Hamas and Yemeni Houthis similarly have a goal of the destruction of Israel and they haven't got the means to do it either.

It's just untrue that Hamas, Iran etc all just want a cozy peaceful solution and Israel are the bastards. Obviously the Israeli regime doesn't want peace either but that's why they're blowing each other up, Israel is just far better equipped to do that.

Rhetoric is not the difference between the two parties, military capability is the difference.
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Surely Iran needs nukes for deterrence. That's our argument for having them.
 
Vic said:
Surely Iran needs nukes for deterrence. That's our argument for having them.
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Anybody who thinks that is actually stupid.

To quote Khamenei directly this year - "the divine promise to eliminate the Zionist entity will be fulfilled and we will see the day when Palestine will rise from the river to the sea."

Not to mention the years of rhetoric and countdown clocks to Israels destruction.
 
halfcenturyup said:
So we agree there is currently no existential threat to Israel from anywhere?
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I honestly don't understand the argument.

Iran are not an existential threat today but only because of years of successful western sanctions and Israeli intelligence actions which have prevented Iran acquiring nuclear weapons.

If Iran did acquire nuclear weapons then do you believe that they'd use them in Israel? The rhetoric and Iranian government suggests so? At what point will you admit that Iran are a bit of a pain in the arse?

Notice we haven't spoken about anybody wanting peace, that sort of sums this up doesn't it?
 
inbetween said:
Well they potentially are an existential threat, Iran has a state goal of the destruction of Israel, they want to acquire nuclear weapons for that reason. Currently Iran hasn't got the means to do what it wants to do.

Hamas and Yemeni Houthis similarly have a goal of the destruction of Israel and they haven't got the means to do it either.

It's just untrue that Hamas, Iran etc all just want a cozy peaceful solution and Israel are the bastards. Obviously the Israeli regime doesn't want peace either but that's why they're blowing each other up, Israel is just far better equipped to do that.

Rhetoric is not the difference between the two parties, military capability is the difference.
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A lot of truth there, but why are Israel far better equipped?
 
inbetween said:
Anybody who thinks that is actually stupid.

To quote Khamenei directly this year - "the divine promise to eliminate the Zionist entity will be fulfilled and we will see the day when Palestine will rise from the river to the sea."

Not to mention the years of rhetoric and countdown clocks to Israels destruction.
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I could be wrong but I suspect you’re missing @Vic ‘s point.
 
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