Middle East Conflict

Had Spain attacked Bilbao with airstrikes, or Britain West Belfast, killing thousands in order to eliminate ETA or IRA operatives, the US would have told them to stop.
The US is complicit in these war crimes. Not that it's a first for them.
 
robbieh said:
Propaganda. The US said the same bollocks in Iraq. As if military personnel in the IDF don't live in blocks of flats with other people.

Does Netanyahu live in a field on his own? Of course he doesn't and if Hamas wanted to take him out they'd probably have to blow up other innocent civilians.
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If Netenyahu was assassinated via explosives, innocent civilians would almost certainly be killed. Staff, being an obvious cohort. And to some extent those staff will have known the risks associated with such employment. Doesn’t mean they deserve to be collateral damage, but they must have known it was possible and decided to work there anyway.

And an attack like that would be a far more legitimate target for Hamas than what happened last October.

So, I think there’s a case for this attack being legitimate, yes.

Don't know enough about it yet to decide one way or the other, but attacking Hezbollah’s HQ with the big chief in it has to be capable of being legitimate, yes. Given they are effectively at war.

Don’t really understand why this point is especially controversial.
 
Two Gun Bob said:
Fair to say Robbieh, that you and I are not even fit to lace the mans shoes. A hero of the people for the people and from the people. The utterances we both breath on a football forum, pale into insignificance to this mans deeds.

After graduating from high school in 1967 Netanyahu returned to Israel to enlist in the Israel Defense Forces. He trained as a combat soldier and served for five years in a special forces unit of the IDF.

He took part in numerous cross-border raids during the 1967–70 War of Attrition, including the March 1968 Battle of Karameh, when the IDF attacked jordan to capture Yasser Arafat but were repulsed with heavy casualties, then rising to become a team-leader in the unit.

He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions. He was involved in many other missions, including the 1968 Israeli raid on Lebanon and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571 in May 1972, in which he was shot in the shoulder.
He was discharged from active service in 1972 but remained in the Sayeret Matkal reserve.

Following his discharge, he left to study in the United States but returned in October 1973 to serve in the Yom Kippur War. He took part in special forces raids along the suez against egyptian forces before leading a commando attack deep inside Syrian territory.

His brother yoni also a special forces operative was killed in action on the raid at Ettebe. Now known as operation yonatan in his memory.

Surrounded on all sides by religious fookwits, hellbent on the destruction and total anihiliation of the state of Israel, he has shown true strength in the face of the terrorist onslaught that threatens their very existance. God speed that man.
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Can't believe I just read that sycophantic bullshit regarding one of the most despicable, evil bastards to have ever breathed this planet's air.
 
Two Gun Bob said:
And the terrorists view the Israelis as sub human .. yes?
Or am I being obtuse again.
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Veteran Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk (who resided in Beirut for much of his career) on the word ‘terrorist’. This is taken from his outstanding book on the Lebanese civil war Pity The Nation.

1727506016139.png

See also the philosopher David Livingstone Smith on the tendency to dehumanise others. This interview is fascinating. It can be read or listened to, as there is a transcript.

www.firesidepod.org

Monsters, with David Livingstone Smith — Fireside

When fighting monsters, we risk becoming monstrous.
www.firesidepod.org www.firesidepod.org
 
Two Gun Bob said:
Fair to say Robbieh, that you and I are not even fit to lace the mans shoes. A hero of the people for the people and from the people. The utterances we both breath on a football forum, pale into insignificance to this mans deeds.

After graduating from high school in 1967 Netanyahu returned to Israel to enlist in the Israel Defense Forces. He trained as a combat soldier and served for five years in a special forces unit of the IDF.

He took part in numerous cross-border raids during the 1967–70 War of Attrition, including the March 1968 Battle of Karameh, when the IDF attacked jordan to capture Yasser Arafat but were repulsed with heavy casualties, then rising to become a team-leader in the unit.

He was wounded in combat on multiple occasions. He was involved in many other missions, including the 1968 Israeli raid on Lebanon and the rescue of the hijacked Sabena Flight 571 in May 1972, in which he was shot in the shoulder.
He was discharged from active service in 1972 but remained in the Sayeret Matkal reserve.

Following his discharge, he left to study in the United States but returned in October 1973 to serve in the Yom Kippur War. He took part in special forces raids along the suez against egyptian forces before leading a commando attack deep inside Syrian territory.

His brother yoni also a special forces operative was killed in action on the raid at Ettebe. Now known as operation yonatan in his memory.

Surrounded on all sides by religious fookwits, hellbent on the destruction and total anihiliation of the state of Israel, he has shown true strength in the face of the terrorist onslaught that threatens their very existance. God speed that man.
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This is the Netanyahu who was secretly videotaped during his first term of office saying that the Palestinians should be repeatedly beaten up ‘until it is unbearable’.

This is the Netanyahu whose hand the widow of Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin refused to shake because of the part she felt he had played in inciting hatred towards her husband prior to his assassination.

But she was moved by the sincerity and warmth of PLO leader Yasser Arafat when he visited her in person to offer his condolences. “Sometimes”, she observed, “I feel that we can find a common language with Arabs more easily than we can with the Jewish extremists”.

Arafat’s handshake, she explained, symbolised for her the hope for peace, whereas Netanyahu’s handshake represented no such hope.

In the long history of this conflict, there are two prominent Israeli politicians who are better candidates for admiration, based on what I have read about it so far:
Moshe Sharett and Shlomo Ben Ami.

Both come across well in Avi Shlaim’s magisterial study.

Am looking forward to reading this book by Ben Ami (which I think might have been recommended to me by someone on here):

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Israel can wipe out Hezbollah and Hamas but it won't be enough.

The fact Israel is a sort of gated community with overwhelming firepower means it's like one of those forts in Westerns.

Unlike in the US they will never be able to subdue the native population.

They are unwelcome guests in the area and becoming more unwelcome with every passing day.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Was it a close quarters kill or did they just drop hundreds of bombs and wipe out generations of family?

How many lost due to ‘collateral’?
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Will check and come back to you but think they took out a dozen terrorists including Nasrallah. Don’t think generations of families were wiped out. Aren’t you happy that the leader of a terrorist organisation can no longer function. People in Lebanon, Syria, Israel etc are all celebrating, I wonder why. Were you happy when Bin Laden was killed?
 
robbieh said:
Israel can wipe out Hezbollah and Hamas but it won't be enough.

The fact Israel is a sort of gated community with overwhelming firepower means it's like one of those forts in Westerns.

Unlike in the US they will never be able to subdue the native population.

They are unwelcome guests in the area and becoming more unwelcome with every passing day.
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Agree with much of that, but these last couple of weeks will unquestionably have weakened Hezbollah hugely in the here and now, but the notion this solves anything is absurd.
 
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