Middle East Conflict

In 1967, when Nasser was dick-swinging around the Middle East, there was a UN force stationed in Sinai that had been there since Suez to protect international waterways.

Nasser ordered them out and the UN Secretary General meekly complied. With them out of the way Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran to international shipping. Israel said that would be a causus belli and they acted on that.

That led to the Six Day War, which left the West Bank & Gaza in Israeli hands. Had the UN force stayed put, it's doubtful the war would've happened and we wouldn't be where we are today.

The UN force in Lebanon was supposed to ensure that Hezbollah met the terms of the 2006 ceasefire and remained north of the Litani river. They conspicuously failed to do that, which is why we're where we are now in Lebanon.

So you could maybe understand why Israel has no faith in the UN.
Nasser took over the Suez canal as he was entitled to do as it was in Egypt.
The Brits, French and Israelis attacked Egypt.
For once the US were on the right side and told them to back off.

And by the way the UN are always unpopular with states who want to use overwhelming force against states with little means of defense.
 
Interesting - and probably a lot of truth in it - but if the aim is have an Israel led by Netanyahu that we "need", that's clearly failed (in public opinion if not in the corridors of power), and I'm really not sure that the Taliban are merely the product of colonial divide-and-rule - they don't seem to give much credit to the west for their brand of Islam.
 
Nasser took over the Suez canal as he was entitled to do as it was in Egypt.
The Brits, French and Israelis attacked Egypt.
For once the US were on the right side and told them to back off.

And by the way the UN are always unpopular with states who want to use overwhelming force against states with little means of defense.
Then it's time to reinforce the UN bases in the Lebanon with some serious no shit taken forces with the mandate to react forcibly. I learnt very early on that the only way to educate a bully was to put them on the deck.
 
thats about all we have - we lack the personnel to fill said boots most of the military is on deployment the rest is in for a refit - thats what happens when you decimate their numbers
If by "we" is meant the UK, if we're helping "defend" Israel, that would be quite a leap.
 
In 1967, when Nasser was dick-swinging around the Middle East, there was a UN force stationed in Sinai that had been there since Suez to protect international waterways.

Nasser ordered them out and the UN Secretary General meekly complied. With them out of the way Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran to international shipping. Israel said that would be a causus belli and they acted on that.

That led to the Six Day War, which left the West Bank & Gaza in Israeli hands. Had the UN force stayed put, it's doubtful the war would've happened and we wouldn't be where we are today.

The UN force in Lebanon was supposed to ensure that Hezbollah met the terms of the 2006 ceasefire and remained north of the Litani river. They conspicuously failed to do that, which is why we're where we are now in Lebanon.

So you could maybe understand why Israel has no faith in the UN.
Israel are full members of the UN since 1949. Regardless of whether there is now or was just cause back in 1967, UNEF were as you say, asked to leave and were in the process of doing so when Israel launched a surprise attack and took air superiority. Etc etc it’s history. But so is the fact that 15 UN peace keeping forces were killed in Sinai at the outset of that war, killed by Israeli bombing.

My opinion is that if you are in, you play by the rules. You can’t pick and choose what you define as terrorism or unlawful in other states and flagrantly ignore the law yourself.
 
An echo chamber is a metaphorical description of a situation where beliefs or information are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition within a closed system, insulated from opposing views or rebuttals. This environment circulates existing views without encountering diverse perspectives, potentially leading to confirmation bias.
 
In 1967, when Nasser was dick-swinging around the Middle East, there was a UN force stationed in Sinai that had been there since Suez to protect international waterways.

Nasser ordered them out and the UN Secretary General meekly complied. With them out of the way Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran to international shipping. Israel said that would be a causus belli and they acted on that.

That led to the Six Day War, which left the West Bank & Gaza in Israeli hands. Had the UN force stayed put, it's doubtful the war would've happened and we wouldn't be where we are today.

The UN force in Lebanon was supposed to ensure that Hezbollah met the terms of the 2006 ceasefire and remained north of the Litani river. They conspicuously failed to do that, which is why we're where we are now in Lebanon.

So you could maybe understand why Israel has no faith in the UN.
The situation and outcome, as others have noted, was a bit more complicated than what you have described, as has been the UN peacekeeping and enforcement mission in Lebanon (partly because of Hezbollah’s actions since 2006, and partly because of Israel’s actions since 2006). I can speak from experience in this particular discussion, as I was in Israel after the ceasefire was agreed and saw first hand the actions of both sides at the time. And, for those that may not remember, Netanyahu lead Israel in some very provocative rhetoric and tactics almost as soon as he reentered office in 2009. He has always been unhappy with the terms of the ceasefire and has worked to undermine it at essentially every opportunity.

But even putting that aside, and simply accepting your premise of the UN failing Israel in Lebanon, I don’t think you are arguing that Netanyahu et al are justified in ordering attacks on UNIFIL personnel, their positions, or demanding their withdrawal, surely?
 
The UN isn't fit for purpose.
It wants scrapping and redrawing up, if that is even possible.

Personally, i think nations need to create a new union.
 
An echo chamber is a metaphorical description of a situation where beliefs or information are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition within a closed system, insulated from opposing views or rebuttals. This environment circulates existing views without encountering diverse perspectives, potentially leading to confirmation bias.
Imagine what the echo chamber is like in Israel!
 
The UN isn't fit for purpose.
It wants scrapping and redrawing up, if that is even possible.

Personally, i think nations need to create a new union.
No they don't. It's a thankless task as the big players like the US, Russia, China et al will do want they want regardless of the wishes of the rest of the world.
 
There's some utter crap posted on here but that takes the absolute biscuit.
Nothing in it then? Not on the Smotrich wish list?

 
I accept that @blueinsa
I do however feel the Irish stance is correct and while hoping no harm comes to the few troops that are there, I do hope they stand by our principles.
I had a politician come around my door on Friday with a local election coming up. Normally I’d take the leaflet and run them. However he asked so I gave him some of my local concerns off the top of my head.

I did though, tell him that the government and Presidential stance is wholeheartedly supporting what the views on the ground are, here in Ireland. The representation globally, so far, does have the support of the people.

Have a listen to this Israeli historian.
Get to the end. What is needed is the 3 A’s.
Netanyahu has no desire of them. Peace is not his goal and never was.

And like yourself, that in no way condones the actions of Hamas or Hezbollah.
That is not where I am coming from.


Peacekeepers do an incredibly dangerous and important role and they should never be the target for anyone, it is that simple.

Netanyahu should be on a leash and replaced asap and would be but for the enemy Israel is facing whose attitudes towards human life is no better I’m afraid.
 
Nothing in it then? Not on the Smotrich wish list?

Even by Netanyahu's standards, Smotrich is a lunatic. It's like some of the far-right nutters here, who want to deport all Muslims. Do they represent the mainstream? No.
Do you seriously believe that's a strategic aim of Israel? No you don't.

The problem in this thread is people quoting extremists and insisting they represent mainstream opinions.
 
Israeli media outlet Haaretz:



"Israeli Defense Officials: Gov't Pushing Aside Hostage Deal, Eyeing Gaza Annexation​

IDF commanders in Gaza say the recent decision to operate in the northern part of the Strip was taken without proper deliberations, and is apparently aimed at pressuring civilians in the area to relocate"
 
Even by Netanyahu's standards, Smotrich is a lunatic. It's like some of the far-right nutters here, who want to deport all Muslims. Do they represent the mainstream? No.
Do you seriously believe that's a strategic aim of Israel? No you don't.

The problem in this thread is people quoting extremists and insisting they represent mainstream opinions.
Isn't this 'lunatic' in the government?
 
Even by Netanyahu's standards, Smotrich is a lunatic. It's like some of the far-right nutters here, who want to deport all Muslims. Do they represent the mainstream? No.
Do you seriously believe that's a strategic aim of Israel? No you don't.

The problem in this thread is people quoting extremists and insisting they represent mainstream opinions.
Of course Smotrich doesn’t represent the majority of Israelis—I am not sure I have seen anyone arguing that, though, perhaps I missed it.

But that is not the point being made by most of those denouncing the actions of the state.

Smotrich, Ben-Gvir, and other extreme Zionists are the driving force behind the Israeli government right now. Netanyahu is willing to give them almost anything they want in order to stay in power and avoid accountability. He does share some of their ideology—he always has opposed a two state solution and has many, many times expressed support for an expanded Israel. But even where he may not prescribe to their extreme religious and political beliefs—including Kahanism—he defers to them to avoid being ousted on his far-right side. He has allowed them to implement increasingly unpopular and extremism policies, and he has encouraged the expansions and intensification of the war in Gaza, military and settler operations/annexations in the West Bank, the opening of the new front with Hezbollah (including bombing Lebanon in to submission), and now attacking and threatening UN forces and the UN itself.

They are effectively the Israeli state at this point, so it is intellectually dishonest to argue that because they do not represent most Israelis views and desires, that their rhetoric, actions, and policies are not relevant or dangerous. Or that they do not represent or shape the strategic aims of Israel.

It would be like saying because Trump does not represent most Americans he is no threat to anyone. And even with him, at least he isn’t actually the president at present!
 
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Imagine living in Devon sipping your coffee talking about football, while at the same time you know the air force are bombing the shit out of Cornwall. Day after day week after week. Thousands dying, famine and disease.

I reckon eventually you'd ask yourself. What on earth are we doing?

I'd probably ask, why the fuck are we bombing ourselves?
 

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