Middle East Conflict

[Vic]

The average Palestinians life is way shitter than the average Israelis by every measure. Most of this is the result of Israeli policy towards the people who lived in the land before they colonised it. They never intended to live peacefully alongside their Arab hosts. It's a myth that they did. One of many they repeat to themselves. They needed to get rid of a lot of Palestinians to make way for the influx of settlers.
Given all this it's hardly surprising monstrous organisations like Hamas have appeared on the scene. Torture, targeted assassinations I heard someone say. Well yes just like Irgun and the Stern gang in the past and the IDF now.
Someone said it's war, shit happens. I don't think it is war. It's two sides using terror against the opposing civilian populations.

Some of the early Zionists certainly did think the Arabs would happily go with the project, once the Arabs saw how Jewish enterprise would benefit the whole land. (That might now be criticised as an antisemitic trope!) Others - especially once they'd visited and saw the situation "on the ground" - realised that the Arabs might not be so keen on being colonised.

 

[Ducado]

You realise going in boots on the ground from the start would have been close to suicide right?

Well yes it would have been for the IDF but is the wanton slaughter of innocent civilians worth the cost ?

Sooner or later people are going to have admit they don’t actually value Palestinian lives and the slaughter of what is likely to be 10s of thousands before this done, what is an acceptable ratio?

And here lies the problem, some have denigrated them and their cause so much that no longer see them as flesh and blood human beings

And before anyone says it, that includes Hamas as well as Israel

 

[kaz7]

Hiding yourself behind civilians is not fair, I hate what is happening over there my dad used to employ Palestinians, I used to spend weekends in Palestinian markets , I hate what is happening to innocent men women and children . What frustrates me however is that whilst people claim to care so much about innocent Palestinians and rightly condemn hardline IDF actions, simply say hammas are cunts right carry on slartting isreal, when realy they should spend more time saying release hostages, disarm yourselves and stop the inevitable innocent casualties just as much , seems care for Palestinians for some only comes from the a actions of one side .
Que the line isreal are a democracy they should be held to higher accounts, bollocks if you care , you care

Hamas hiding behind civillians is barbaric and cowardly but israel must have a better plan to get to them without bombing hospitals and churches where civillians are sheltering

 

[Roger Mellie]

All these people calling for a ceasefire make me wonder how they have decided the time is right for a ceasefire? Have Hamas been sufficiently damaged to prevent a repeat of the 7 October attacks? Have they stopped firing rockets in the direction on the nearest Israeli town or city? Have they stopped calling for more attacks against Jews?

I have the feeling that some would have preferred a ceasefire right after the attacks, which would be tantamount to condoning the murder of 1400, mass rapes, and torturing children to death

 

[halfcenturyup]

Hiding yourself behind civilians is not fair, I hate what is happening over there my dad used to employ Palestinians, I used to spend weekends in Palestinian markets , I hate what is happening to innocent men women and children . What frustrates me however is that whilst people claim to care so much about innocent Palestinians and rightly condemn hardline IDF actions, simply say hammas are cunts right carry on slartting isreal, when realy they should spend more time saying release hostages, disarm yourselves and stop the inevitable innocent casualties just as much , seems care for Palestinians for some only comes from the a actions of one side .
Que the line isreal are a democracy they should be held to higher accounts, bollocks if you care , you care

If only there was a yardstick for determining what Palestine without Hamas would look like. Not sure your argument holds much water.

I suppose you don't support what is going on in the West Bank? But then I would say you are all over the place. You clearly feel Hamas should be incapacitated because of their actions towards Israel, but it seems you don't condone the way they are going about it. You think Gaza without Hamas will be in a better position, but I am guessing you don't condone what is happening in the West Bank. I get it, it's an highly emotional topic for you, and the attack on October 7th is still very much in your mind.

But let me ask you a question. If you were an average Palestinian, who apparently is in his 20s, after all that has happened in your lifetime, and is happening now in Gaza and the West Bank, how would you feel about Israel? I have no emotional attachment to any of this either way, but I can tell you I wouldn't care much for Israel at all. To put it mildly.

 

[cucumberman]

Good job too, or Ukraine would be under Russian occupation.

So to base on your overgeneralisation opinion..is the Nakba, Naksa and the assassination of right-wing Israeli on Yitzhak Rabin events of Israel under Palestine occupation? If so as you say so,

• Has Ukraine ever been denied their right to travel without first requesting 3-weeks in advance from the Russian governance and that right to travel can be revoked during immigration checkpoint?
• Are the Ukrainians only allowed access to phone numbers since time immemorial by using +7 code?
• Prior to the Ukraine-Russian war, did Ukrainian for decades have intermittent electricity with frequent daily power outages of up to 12 hours a day, and internet connectivity restricted to 4 hours a day? On a given good day?

Here's a suggestion. Look up Cambridge dictionary and "chalk and cheese".

 

[BlueAnorak]

Prestwich_Blue is one of them. There are other's too but I had a direct question put to this person and he refused to say that Israel should stop their mass murder and genocidal actions.

Whenever someone who supports the bombing is asked if Israel should stop, their response is "why dont Hamas just surrender". It's not that "Yes Israel should stop for a ceasefire from both sides."

Israel's actions now are land grab actions under the guise of wiping out Hamas. And the majority of the world sees it now.

Oh dear.
Hamas started it you know.
now the bombing has gone OTT (I fully accrpt this) BUT it wouldn't be happening if Hamas hadn't attacked and killed 1,300 Israelis.
Apparantly that is irrelevant.

 

[halfcenturyup]

All these people calling for a ceasefire make me wonder how they have decided the time is right for a ceasefire? Have Hamas been sufficiently damaged to prevent a repeat of the 7 October attacks? Have they stopped firing rockets in the direction on the nearest Israeli town or city? Have they stopped calling for more attacks against Jews?

I have the feeling that some would have preferred a ceasefire right after the attacks, which would be tantamount to condoning the murder of 1400, mass rapes, and torturing children to death

I would say a humanitarian ceasefire would be appropriate when fuel, water, food and medicine for a population of 2 million are running out, when hospitals can't help the wounded, when UN agencies have to stop providing support to displaced Palestinians, and when disease will likely break out in heavily populated areas without any humanitarian action. But that's just me.

 

[BlueAnorak]

So to base on your overgeneralisation opinion..is the Nakba, Naksa and the assassination of right-wing Israeli on Yitzhak Rabin events of Israel under Palestine occupation? If so as you say so,

• Has Ukraine ever been denied their right to travel without first requesting 3-weeks in advance from the Russian governance and that right to travel can be revoked during immigration checkpoint?
• Are the Ukrainians only allowed access to phone numbers since time immemorial by using +7 code?
• Prior to the Ukraine-Russian war, did Ukrainian for decades have intermittent electricity with frequent daily power outages of up to 12 hours a day, and internet connectivity restricted to 4 hours a day? On a given good day?

Here's a suggestion. Look up Cambridge dictionary and "chalk and cheese".

Oh dear.
I guess everything is the West's fault in your head.
Go and talk your bollocks to Ukrainians and see what answer you get.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Oh dear.
Hamas started it you know.
now the bombing has gone OTT (I fully accrpt this) BUT it wouldn't be happening if Hamas hadn't attacked and killed 1,300 Israelis.
Apparanyly that is irrelevant.

Come on, you can do better than "Hamas started it".