Middle East Conflict

[Vic]

Yes they are. I wouldn’t even imagine that the ordinary Palestinian people are overly fond of them but there are some in the country, probably a growing number, that may see them as defenders.

I don’t wish to upset my Northern friends in here but you’d want to see the original charter of the Orange Order set up in 1795 by the Peep O Day Boys, after the battle of the Diamond which was the culmination of sectarian battles with the Catholic Defenders.
The Orange Order charter was remarkably similar in intent to that of the current Hammas.
They basically wanted to eliminate all Catholics from East Ulster.
To Hell or to Connacht. King Billy’s mantra was enacted and the town of Louisburg was built for refugee weavers by the 3rd earl of Altmount in co. Mayo. As far west as you can go.

Right enough history.
The point being, yes Hammas are every bit as extreme and are seen as terrorists but history may well judge them differently in a hundred years depending on who wins, ultimately.
The Orange Order are still around banging their drums and perpetuating a kind of sectarianism that I would feel the majority of NI have no time for, but they are a respectable organisation.

Who’s to say Hammas who now have a mantra of Jewish extermination, won’t be a respectable organisation in the eyes of the world in 50 years?

One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter after all.

See breakaway Zionist group Lehi's mantra in 1940

Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: "Ye shall blot them out to the last man."

But first and foremost, terrorism is for us a part of the political battle being conducted under the present circumstances, and it has a great part to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world, as well as to our wretched brethren outside this land, it proclaims our war against the occupier.

("The occupier" then was the British. Lehi were so against the British, they wanted to form an alliance with Nazi Germany...)

 

[Vic]

I was just reading the exchanges. There's no indoctrination here, just your posts don't seem too realistic. Look, this land has been fought over for years. When the UN partitioned Palestine in 1948 the Israeli's took full advantage displacing 700,000 Palestinians and then welcoming 850,000 Jewish Arabs. Not going to sit well is it? And you wonder why there is an uprising.

I'm not sure about 850,000 "Jewish Arabs". Source?

 

[kippax123]

Just watched Born in Gaza on Netflix. Absolutely tragic that innocent children on both sides are being slaughtered. To think for one moment that these children won't grow up with such pure hatred. They won't need radicalising by hateful tyrants, just their traumatic life experiences will do that.

 

[Ducado]

Geopolitically the West is doing itself no favours, this mass slaughter is being played out in front of the world with blessings from Western Governments, we are effectively driving countries into the Arms of China, Iran and Russia just at a time we should be strengthening our relationships

But all is not lost if they can some how force the Israelis back to the table to negotiate a realistic deal, but by the looks of it unfortunately a collective blood lust seems to have overcome them, they need friends to advise them, a green light is never a good thing to give them, as the Americans are finding out, although I still note the $14 billion dollars had not arrived yet so perhaps it’s carrot and stick

 

[Bluemoon_420]

BUt it's from X, seriously everything on there needs fact checking before people post it otherwise you are complicit in spreading what may be fake propaganda

You’re right, but it can be difficult to fact check some of this stuff. The reason I posted it was because Dr Mats Gilbert (Norwegian doctor working in Gaza) was on Al-Jazeera backing up the claims as per the twitter video.

 

[Ric]

BUt it's from X, seriously everything on there needs fact checking before people post it otherwise you are complicit in spreading what may be fake propaganda

Agreed. I think there are too many propaganda videos/tweets being posted in this thread (and others, particularly in the political forum) from both sides that don’t really add a lot to the debate. We don’t have the time or resources to fact check them all, so politely request that people refrain from posting them for now. Thanks.

 

[trueblue1972]

You’re right, but it can be difficult to fact check some of this stuff. The reason I posted it was because Dr Mats Gilbert (Norwegian doctor working in Gaza) was on Al-Jazeera backing up the claims as per the twitter video.

You'll hear different sides to that video also , you'll also hear it was hammas shooting who knows

 

[Vic]

Agreed. I think there are too many propaganda videos/tweets being posted in this thread (and others, particularly in the political forum) from both sides that don’t really add a lot to the debate. We don’t have the time or resources to fact check them all, so politely request that people refrain from posting them for now. Thanks.

What does that leave as reliable sources?

 

[cucumberman]

Mate, he's never going to get it. Your just wasting your time with some people. He needs a history lesson.

I’ve already abandoned and Ignore. Facts based on self-conjectures and assumptions are not worth the time.

In contrast there are other pro-Israelis and/or anti-Hamas in this thread that do have meticulous opinions and whom I have DM’ed with in great length who responded in great length in return. Theirs are more analytical first than impulsive first and agree-to-disagree is appropriate.

 

[cucumberman]

Agreed. I think there are too many propaganda videos/tweets being posted in this thread (and others, particularly in the political forum) from both sides that don’t really add a lot to the debate. We don’t have the time or resources to fact check them all, so politely request that people refrain from posting them for now. Thanks.

Spot on. When I post videos/tweets here it may serve as corroborating, but in this age when deepfakes and generative AI video is accessible, let alone SEO and ML have been influencing what the user is predisposed towards (I keep on getting on bluemoon ads about Hedera HBAR coins btw, just because I do Web3 and blockchain), any social media including X will be for the user’s influence/being influenced.

So fair dos.