NATO

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Rascal

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Are we seeing the end of the alliance?

I have long being against NATO, they have been a branch of American imperialism.

Its time we as a country got rid of the US bases in our country, they should not be here. We have American nuclear weapons on our land, its time we fucked the yank cunts off. They dont care about us, the land of the supposed free is the land of the oppressor.


Im interested if you think you feel safer under NATO?
 
Rascal said:
Are we seeing the end of the alliance?

I have long being against NATO, they have been a branch of American imperialism.

Its time we as a country got rid of the US bases in our country, they should not be here. We have American nuclear weapons on our land, its time we fucked the yank cunts off. They dont care about us, the land of the supposed free is the land of the oppressor.


Im interested if you think you feel safer under NATO?
Click to expand...

We haven’t had US nuclear weapons here for a while I thought?

On NATO, it depends as to when you’re comparing it to. Ultimately we’ve gone a long time in peace for its members and it’s done its job up to now.

Now the US is going more isolationist though, then it’s clearly going to change in its dynamic. Personally I still see merit in it, particularly with Sweden and Finland joining.
 
In order.

Probably, but it’s been dying since the end of the Cold War and I have long advocated Europe taking back control of its defence and security as the US serves its own interests first and everyone else’s second. That is not a criticism of the US. All countries do.

NATO is not an active form of ‘American imperialism’. It is a projection of American power, but primarily a defensive one. That countries seek to join NATO is as much about the behaviour of one country in particular and its recent oppression of those countries. Russian imperialism is an actual thing that drives NATO recruitment.

The American presence in Europe has waned since the end of the Cold War. If we see a mutual interest in having a US base here, then I don’t have an issue. The UK should judge these matters in what benefits us first and foremost.

I think a lot of countries, especially those in an Eastern Europe definitely feel safer. I can guarantee that Ukrainians would definitely not only feel safer, but be safer right now.
 
Rascal said:
Are we seeing the end of the alliance?

I have long being against NATO, they have been a branch of American imperialism.

Its time we as a country got rid of the US bases in our country, they should not be here. We have American nuclear weapons on our land, its time we fucked the yank cunts off. They dont care about us, the land of the supposed free is the land of the oppressor.


Im interested if you think you feel safer under NATO?
Click to expand...
Agree 100%. And I’ve thought this about the yanks for a long time.

They will be delighted to fight the next world war on European soil and to the last drop of European blood, and all whilst bleeding us dry for the next five decades for the privilege. As they did last time.

I despise the American nation. Not the people, ironically (and as a sweeping generalisation) they are in my limited experience some of the nicest and kindest people I’ve ever met. No, I despise this, and every, previous American government.

It can never happen now of course, but I’ve always maintained that this country missed a very big trick in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War. We should have extended the hand of friendship to our Soviet brothers who gave tens of millions of lives to save us from fascism. Invited the Soviets to build air and naval bases in this country instead of, or maybe even alongside, the Yanks. We could have made this country a true bridge between east and west but instead we leapt into bed with the Americans and prostituted ourselves before them, willingly.
We’ve been doing so ever since and we will be paying for it when my as yet unborne great grandkids are my age.
 
Rascal said:
We have American nuclear weapons on our land
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure we no longer have. We have our own, quite probably built in the US, but not controlled by them.

If any multi national group needs changing heavily, it's the UN security council, the UN itself does lots of good work round the world, but the UN itself can only be good for the world without the block vote the security council have, it no longer serves a purpose for the world in general.
 
I think it has clear merit in keeping the peace in Europe. We're in the midst of the longest period of peace in western Europe ever. But its primary concern is European defense and for that reason it should be a European-led organization, and that includes funding defense.

The US pivot to Asia was broadcast in diplomatic terms for a decade and in idiotic, alienating terms a couple of weeks ago, but it is past time for a realignment.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
Agree 100%. And I’ve thought this about the yanks for a long time.

They will be delighted to fight the next world war on European soil and to the last drop of European blood, and all whilst bleeding us dry for the next five decades for the privilege. As they did last time.

I despise the American nation. Not the people, ironically (and as a sweeping generalisation) they are in my limited experience some of the nicest and kindest people I’ve ever met. No, I despise this, and every, previous American government.

It can never happen now of course, but I’ve always maintained that this country missed a very big trick in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War. We should have extended the hand of friendship to our Soviet brothers who gave tens of millions of lives to save us from fascism. Invited the Soviets to build air and naval bases in this country instead of, or maybe even alongside, the Yanks. We could have made this country a true bridge between east and west but instead we leapt into bed with the Americans and prostituted ourselves before them, willingly.
We’ve been doing so ever since and we will be paying for it when my as yet unborne great grandkids are my age.
Click to expand...
What? Especially with that username.
 
BobKowalski said:
In order.

Probably, but it’s been dying since the end of the Cold War and I have long advocated Europe taking back control of its defence and security as the US serves its own interests first and everyone else’s second. That is not a criticism of the US. All countries do.

NATO is not an active form of ‘American imperialism’. It is a projection of American power, but primarily a defensive one. That countries seek to join NATO is as much about the behaviour of one country in particular and its recent oppression of those countries. Russian imperialism is an actual thing that drives NATO recruitment.

The American presence in Europe has waned since the end of the Cold War. If we see a mutual interest in having a US base here, then I don’t have an issue. The UK should judge these matters in what benefits us first and foremost.

I think a lot of countries, especially those in an Eastern Europe definitely feel safer. I can guarantee that Ukrainians would definitely not only feel safer, but be safer right now.
Click to expand...

NATO still has place, and we need it now more than ever. Whether or not the USA still deserves the level of influence it wields within NATO is an entirely different argument, and given the current US administration's appetite for relations with traditional enemies of NATO, I'm not entirely sure they do.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
It can never happen now of course, but I’ve always maintained that this country missed a very big trick in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War. We should have extended the hand of friendship to our Soviet brothers who gave tens of millions of lives to save us from fascism. Invited the Soviets to build air and naval bases in this country instead of, or maybe even alongside, the Yanks. We could have made this country a true bridge between east and west but instead we leapt into bed with the Americans and prostituted ourselves before them, willingly.
We’ve been doing so ever since and we will be paying for it when my as yet unborne great grandkids are my age.
Click to expand...
Absolutely insane talk mate tbh. Listen to people who actually grew up under the control of the Soviet Union. An absolutely horrendous regime. Imagine winning the war and then allowing Stalin's armies into your country.
 
BobKowalski said:
NATO is not an active form of ‘American imperialism’. It is a projection of American power, but primarily a defensive one. That countries seek to join NATO is as much about the behaviour of one country in particular and its recent oppression of those countries. Russian imperialism is an actual thing that drives NATO recruitment.
Click to expand...
The only country to ever actually invoke article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty is the USA, and they did it for their disastrous invasion of Afghanistan on the basis of a dubious connection to the 9/11 bombers. They are also the only country to have a leader who explicitly stated that he would not honour the same article if invoked by another country if he personally didn't feel they were spending enough on defence.

The existence of 'NATO bases' is basically a way for the USA to spread their troops across the globe, although admittedly as Okinawa has shown, NATO is not a necessary prerequisite for that. It's worth mentioning that the people of Japan have overwhelmingly voted to remove the US airbase on Okinawa multiple times. In fact, one PM resigned after getting elected on the platform and failing to deliver it. You wonder what sort of threats the Americans were making behind the scenes to make a newly elected PM resign rather than just go ahead with its removal.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
Agree 100%. And I’ve thought this about the yanks for a long time.

They will be delighted to fight the next world war on European soil and to the last drop of European blood, and all whilst bleeding us dry for the next five decades for the privilege. As they did last time.

I despise the American nation. Not the people, ironically (and as a sweeping generalisation) they are in my limited experience some of the nicest and kindest people I’ve ever met. No, I despise this, and every, previous American government.

It can never happen now of course, but I’ve always maintained that this country missed a very big trick in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War. We should have extended the hand of friendship to our Soviet brothers who gave tens of millions of lives to save us from fascism. Invited the Soviets to build air and naval bases in this country instead of, or maybe even alongside, the Yanks. We could have made this country a true bridge between east and west but instead we leapt into bed with the Americans and prostituted ourselves before them, willingly.
We’ve been doing so ever since and we will be paying for it when my as yet unborne great grandkids are my age.
Click to expand...

Lmao extended our hand to Stalin, Patton had the right idea but no one had the appetite for it.
 
Rascal said:
Are we seeing the end of the alliance?

I have long being against NATO, they have been a branch of American imperialism.

Its time we as a country got rid of the US bases in our country, they should not be here. We have American nuclear weapons on our land, its time we fucked the yank cunts off. They dont care about us, the land of the supposed free is the land of the oppressor.


Im interested if you think you feel safer under NATO?
Click to expand...
The 'special relationship' has always been slightly abusive. What we are seeing re Ukraine from Trump is the naked imperialism of the west rather than the liberal gift wrapping of it as a noble cause. We always had a strategic eye on a foothold in Ukraine for its geography and resources.
I don't see the US sell out of Ukraine as any worse than suez, more recently gaza and countless other US foreign policy actions since ww2.
Nato will remain intact for its intended purpose, but I don't think it's expansion will continue.
 
NATO shouldn't be thought of as a fighting force. Nor should it be thought of as a vehicle for "imperialism."

It was formed to safeguard against global conflicts akin to WW1 and WW2, and it's signatories have abided by these conditions for almost a century. It's not Europe's fault Donald Trump came into being almost 80 years ago. But with any luck he'll be dead soon and the world will feel a damn sight safer.
 
Rascal said:
Are we seeing the end of the alliance?

I have long being against NATO, they have been a branch of American imperialism.

Its time we as a country got rid of the US bases in our country, they should not be here. We have American nuclear weapons on our land, its time we fucked the yank cunts off. They dont care about us, the land of the supposed free is the land of the oppressor.


Im interested if you think you feel safer under NATO?
Click to expand...
Military alliances have always existed, our princess marries your prince etc but you cannot trust any other country fully. My instinct has always been for both myself and country to be as independent as possible. I'm not against NATO but I would want enough military deterrence in the UK to deter any other country/countries from attacking us. The anti USA stuff I can do without, it seems to me that many cannot wait to burn their flag and much of it just seems to be political opportunism.
 
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