Nottingham Forest (A) | PL | Post Match Thread

[Dribble]

I think most people judge it on what the result would be if we played Pep's Barca and view Messi as the key difference that wins the game for them. But in terms of overall results and achievements, considering La Liga doesn't have the competitiveness of the prem, I'd say what Pep has achieved with City suggests we're the better side. Last season's was the best from a success perspective, but I don't know which City side I'd pick as his best. The style of football in our 100 point season was probably my favourite.

The stark thing for me is I saw several things in those matches that today's Pep would've gone bonkers about.

I saw patterns of play both defensively & offensively that were primitive compared to how Pep's City play. I was seriously shocked & taken aback, as I just watched the series out of interest, & not really with the intention of comparing City.

However, it was difficult not to draw comparisons. I'm a hard person to please & convince, so I looked at the programme as a football lover, not a City fan & I could draw no other conclusion. Manchester City 2017-2023 are the best footballing side I've ever seen, & I'll happily stand by that. With or without a Pele, Maradona, Messi or Cryuff.

Edit: We did have a Goat in previous iterations though... :-)

 

[failsworthblueboy]

That's something I'm concerned about as well with Doku. He's generally made his mind up before he gets the ball. It's either getting passed to someone or he's going to run with it. And often he runs with it and only spots the pass a few touches too late when it's closed up or he's lost the ball. You'd hope in time and in training he can be coached to be better.

Ultimately it's as simple as thinking what he wants the end result to be. He's trying to make something happen, and he has to learn that by beating one man and attacking another he's probably already done that. So do the initial dribble then immediately spot the space and learn the movements of your team mates and the patterns of play. You don't need to carry it into the box then shoot, or look for a pass at that stage.

I think you summed it up much better than me mate, he is quite obviously a talent and maybe it's that first year with Pep thing. If anyone can coach him it's Pep, I like the kid and he is clearly more effective when he does things instinctively.

 

[supercity88]

I think you summed it up much better than me mate, he is quite obviously a talent and maybe it's that first year with Pep thing. If anyone can coach him it's Pep, I like the kid and he is clearly more effective when he does things instinctively.

He's still so young with a lot to learn so I think he can be coached. He was perhaps victim of his early success with us where his direct approach was making things happen and getting us out of our seats. He's had to work quite hard to be as effective, but I'm sure he can get better.

If Grealish could rediscover some of Doku's flair (which he had at Villa) and Doku some of Grealish's control then we'd have the perfect wingers!

 

[fathellensbellend]

I don’t think that matters to an opposition manager and team. They are professionals. They will want to win. They will want to beat City.

Not once did I ever think about not trying or throwing a game when I played football.

All this nonsense about Spurs throwing the game because Spurs fans don’t want Arsenal to win the title is exactly that, just nonsense.

Spurs may still have a chance of a CL place when they play us. They have 2 games on hand against Villa, and are 7 points behind Vilaa. Still all to play for, even for Spurs.

Note all the green ticks for City compared to the red and grey ticks for the other top 5 teams. Pep and City have been here before and know how to handle the title run in pressure.
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there will be a huge number of fans in that ground who won't want a spurs win, that will transmit to the team, the build up to the game, it will become the narrative, rightly or wrongly

 

[tommybooth]

Can we bring our own watering can.

 

[HarrytheBlue]

Firstly, respect to Forest - they had a go, played some high risk footy and carved out a few great chances, but ultimately we eventually got a grip of the game and won without being at our best. Kev's op has allowed him to play like a tiger - tenacity - a warrior to go with the sublime skill. I'll take a less than perfect performance with a win, have a week's break from games and start afresh against Wolves. To listen to TalkSHITE, you'd think it was Arsenal that have their destiny in their own hands......

 

[Sheik Battle and Goal]

there will be a huge number of fans in that ground who won't want a spurs win, that will transmit to the team, the build up to the game, it will become the narrative, rightly or wrongly

Im sure but stand to be corrected that we played Leeds at home at Maine Road when they were going head to head with United for the league. We beat them 4-0 so I don’t think it comes into players heads about the result. Spurs will want to beat us no doubt about it .

 

[HarrytheBlue]

And Peter Drury - a very fair minded and normally good commentator (maybe a bit too flowery at times) who definitely isn't anti-us, had a very bad day at the office - he must have confused Kev and Jack six or seven times before he acknowledged his mistake. I'll let him off. As for Smith who is making a career out of shouting 'That's a pen!!' (against us), he always manages to sound like a 90 year-old Mrs Miggins in the fish shop 'Ooh, he's done ever so well...' He's not the only one who uses that old lady phrase - they're all at it - Shearer the lot.

 

[paulchapo]

Im sure but stand to be corrected that we played Leeds at home at Maine Road when they were going head to head with United for the league. We beat them 4-0 so I don’t think it comes into players heads about the result. Spurs will want to beat us no doubt about it .

Exactly. Their players aren't Spurs fans and won't give a fuck what they want. They are professionals and once the whistle goes they will go all out for a win.

 

[bridgeno1]

I think most people judge it on what the result would be if we played Pep's Barca and view Messi as the key difference that wins the game for them. But in terms of overall results and achievements, considering La Liga doesn't have the competitiveness of the prem, I'd say what Pep has achieved with City suggests we're the better side. Last season's was the best from a success perspective, but I don't know which City side I'd pick as his best. The style of football in our 100 point season was probably my favourite.

Sorry but whilst City are one of the best PL sides ever, that peak Barca side is the best club team ever. I don't think City are near that level - I mean just look at the midfield that Barca side had for a start. And Messi is the GOAT, no team could stop him when he was at it.

 

[Burtonblue]

Sorry but whilst City are one of the best PL sides ever, that peak Barca side is the best club team ever. I don't think City are near that level - I mean just look at the midfield that Barca side had for a start. And Messi is the GOAT, no team could stop him when he was at it.

Don’t agree with that.
Barcelona had Messi. Good players around him, some of them great but ultimately Messi was the driving force. Pep says it himself, the instructions were just give the ball to Messi and he will do the rest.
The level of consistency we have achieved in the past 5 years without a GOAT but with many great players for me is the hallmark of a better team.
But it’s just my view…

 

[JGL07]

Sorry but whilst City are one of the best PL sides ever, that peak Barca side is the best club team ever. I don't think City are near that level - I mean just look at the midfield that Barca side had for a start. And Messi is the GOAT, no team could stop him when he was at it.

Messi is no Shaun Goater!

 

[Dribble]

Sorry but whilst City are one of the best PL sides ever, that peak Barca side is the best club team ever. I don't think City are near that level - I mean just look at the midfield that Barca side had for a start. And Messi is the GOAT, no team could stop him when he was at it.

I thought the very same until I saw an El Classico match, the CL final vs ManUre & another La Liga match.

When I compared the City team of 2-3 years ago, it's only then that I realised how good we actually were in comparison to Pep's best at Barça. Messi included...

Guardiola has rewritten the book on how football should be played, & he's proved his theory in the toughest & richest football league in history, & again proved his point in Europe too.

I honestly don't think we really fully appreciate the gravity of what we're witnessing happening with Manchester City right now.

It's why it also does my head in when City fans keep speculating on when Pep's going to leave. We know he likes short two year contract renewals, & if he did leave, leave & go where? Where will he get the level of competition, support & love that he gets at the Etihad?

We're truly witnessing something special & I don't think it will fully dawn on everyone how special until years after these halcyon days.

 

[bridgeno1]

I thought the very same until I saw an El Classico match, the CL final vs ManUre & another La Liga match.

When I compared the City team of 2-3 years ago, it's only then that I realised how good we actually were in comparison to Pep's best at Barça. Messi included...

Guardiola has rewritten the book on how football should be played, & he's proved his theory in the toughest & richest football league in history, & again proved his point in Europe too.

I honestly don't think we really fully appreciate the gravity of what we're witnessing happening with Manchester City right now.

It's why it also does my head in when City fans keep speculating on when Pep's going to leave. We know he likes short two year contract renewals, & if he did leave, leave & go where? Where will he get the level of competition, support & love that he gets at the Etihad?

We're truly witnessing something special & I don't think it will fully dawn on everyone how special until years after these halcyon days.

Re Pep I think when he leaves it will be because he needs a break as that job is intense, demanding and stressful and not to go somewhere else.

Re what you said, well when I think about it I do think of the City side vs some of the truly great Rags and Arsenal sides of the past and player for player I'm not sure City are better (for example have City ever had a player better than CR7, Giggs or Henry?) but in terms of the tactical approach and sheer domination of games then I do think what we are seeing in the PL is unprecedented. I do think that peak Barca side is different gravy though. It's not just Messi - Xavi and Iniesta are all time greats in the middle of the park as well.

 

[supercity88]

Sorry but whilst City are one of the best PL sides ever, that peak Barca side is the best club team ever. I don't think City are near that level - I mean just look at the midfield that Barca side had for a start. And Messi is the GOAT, no team could stop him when he was at it.

That proves the point really. Your impression of them being the best club team ever is on the fact they had Messi and won things. In time people will maybe give more respect for the individuals we've had at City. Rodri is outstanding. Stones completing the most dribbles in a CL final since Messi as a hybrid CB/DM. Gundogan's fluid brilliance. De Bruyne. Haaland. So many more. Walker pocketing Vinicius and still not making the starting 11 for the CL final. De Bruyne coming off injured and Foden coming in but we still won it. If you look into our achievements in comparison to theirs I don't think it's as clear cut. You beat that peak Barca in the CL at home. They lost games in the league and cup. Weaker competitions than ours.

Whilst we've only won the CL once, we hadn't lost a game up until the final against Chelsea and then went unbeaten again to win it last time out. We play in a harder domestic league with an extra cup competition, with scheduling that doesn't give a toss about what other games you have to play and pack them in.

Anyway, we weren't great against Forest but job done!

 

[supercity88]

Re Pep I think when he leaves it will be because he needs a break as that job is intense, demanding and stressful and not to go somewhere else.

Re what you said, well when I think about it I do think of the City side vs some of the truly great Rags and Arsenal sides of the past and player for player I'm not sure City are better (for example have City ever had a player better than CR7, Giggs or Henry?) but in terms of the tactical approach and sheer domination of games then I do think what we are seeing in the PL is unprecedented. I do think that peak Barca side is different gravy though. It's not just Messi - Xavi and Iniesta are all time greats in the middle of the park as well.

Again, if you want to go player for player then you might see things differently. What was Ronaldo's best season for the rags? Henry's? Giggs?

Ronaldo 42 in 49. Henry 39 in 51. Giggs 17 in 58.

Some guy called Haaland bagged 52 in 53.

There's more to it than goals, but we could list plenty of stats to prove how incredible our players have been. Rodri and De Bruyne aren't bad. Walker's probably the most highly regarded RB in the world, yet didn't start the CL final for us because we needed something different.

 

[bridgeno1]

Again, if you want to go player for player then you might see things differently. What was Ronaldo's best season for the rags? Henry's? Giggs?

Ronaldo 42 in 49. Henry 39 in 51. Giggs 17 in 58.

Some guy called Haaland bagged 52 in 53.

There's more to it than goals, but we could list plenty of stats to prove how incredible our players have been. Rodri and De Bruyne aren't bad. Walker's probably the most highly regarded RB in the world, yet didn't start the CL final for us because we needed something different.

Well it's always hard to judge teams of a different era with today. I think the main difference that City may have over the others is tactical excellence. If you look at (as an example) one of the great Arsenal teams of the past you had a lot of flair players like Bergkamp, Henry, Pires etc who could beat players and turn a match, supported by a tough central midfield (led by Vieira) and a strong defence. The players rather than the tactics did the job as most top sides just played 4-4-2 in that era.

Today it's the tactical awareness and intelligence of the City team that make just as much of an impact as the skill levels of the players themselves. The coach is on a different level which is why I think you could take players like Silva, stick them in the Chelsea side with Pochettino and he'd be nowhere near as effective. But then you get players coming in like Kovacic who weren't exactly setting the world on fire at Chelsea but who is tactically astute and has really added something to your midfield.

So for me Pep is the biggest differentiator. I genuinely think if he was managing us we'd have won the league. Arteta is up and coming and learning fast but Pep is the daddy and once he gets players who can buy into his tactics and are smart enough to use them then you get amazing results with players who improve significantly.

 

[Father Paul]

Don’t agree with that.
Barcelona had Messi. Good players around him, some of them great but ultimately Messi was the driving force. Pep says it himself, the instructions were just give the ball to Messi and he will do the rest.
The level of consistency we have achieved in the past 5 years without a GOAT but with many great players for me is the hallmark of a better team.
But it’s just my view…

The little maestro is the key really. Leave him out and it's not a real argument but put him in and it's hard to argue that any team was or is better.

 

[Dribble]

Re Pep I think when he leaves it will be because he needs a break as that job is intense, demanding and stressful and not to go somewhere else.

Re what you said, well when I think about it I do think of the City side vs some of the truly great Rags and Arsenal sides of the past and player for player I'm not sure City are better (for example have City ever had a player better than CR7, Giggs or Henry?) but in terms of the tactical approach and sheer domination of games then I do think what we are seeing in the PL is unprecedented. I do think that peak Barca side is different gravy though. It's not just Messi - Xavi and Iniesta are all time greats in the middle of the park as well.

As Real found out during their Galactico period, having all the best players doesn't translate into having the best team.

I'll see if I can find which series it was again. It was on one of Sky's (Virgin Media) minor sport channels.

It's best others see footage of those legendary teams in big games, so they can relate them to City. I reckon more than a few will be surprised.

 

[bluedave1894]

Messi is no Shaun Goater!

Personally rate Kev Horlock better than Messi.