Opposition view: Arsenal

[Blue2112]

Asked this question on the pre match day thread and as yet no takers from the Arsenal side so i'll ask again on this thread.

I genuinely would like to know what City or any other club outside of the traditional top 4 were/are supposed to do to break into that elite top four and then go on and sustain it for years whilst acheiving any degree of success coupling the Champions League along the way.

The reality is there was/is none other than to buy your way into it. I genuinely genuinely look at the likes of the West Hams, Aston Villa and Newcastle's of this world and feel for them and think that was us a few years ago and look at just how much money, time, effort, heartache, bad press and general mud throwing we've had to take just to get this far and we've still along way to go yet.

I look around at what our owners have been doing since day one here and sometimes have to pinch myself at how lucky we are and why us? I look at all the things off the pitch they've done and I know it would never have happened in my lifetime without them. It was a dream, a pipedream to think we could climb the table each year and strengthen the squad every year and then climb another few places until eventually we broke into the big time and get one of those coveted moneybags Champions League placings. The reason is whilst teams like us are chipping away at it, teams like yourselves in the Champions League have got the foot firmly pressed to the floor on the accelerator and the gap widens year after year. There is no catching up in the old traditional ways. FFPR will kill any chances of West Ham, Aston Villa and Newcastle fans of ever having a day like we did last May. And that I find is a sad situation. Every club and every fan should have that dream every season but unfortunately that isn't the reality.

 

[BlueMoonz1977]

Maybe Arsenal fans need to get real instead of having a go at us for our money.

Is it our fault that for some reason the Arsenal board will not allow a certain person control of the club, who so happens to have money - NO

Is it our fault that your manager and owners sell your best players to rival teams so that they can be strengthened - NO

Is it our fault that your owners allow you to be ripped off over ticket prices yet continually not win a trophy for god knows how long - NO

Don't have a pop at us just because we have owners who actually want us to succeed and win trophies.

At my son's football club, i was speaking to another dad who is an arsenal fan, he works for a contracting firm based in the North West and stated that he was at the site where we are building our new academy. He said that he could not believe the size of the project and was amazed at what our club is doing. This was the same fella who slagged our academy off not too long ago to myself.

Yes you can look over at our club....but instead of being bitter and making snide remarks, maybe you should look on and see how a club should treat its fans and then ask why your club does not do the same.

Arsenal fans should focus on getting your own house in order before passing comments on our club.
We have everything in place to continue our improvement for decades. In years to come MCFC will become THE model in which all premier teams will want to follow and reproduce. This is the legacy that our owners are providing and fulfilling for our club - and most of all us the fans.

Not much wrong with that, although some of you don't seem to realise our fans are protesting against our board and the direction the club has taken. 5 years ago the majority of our support would have looked down,rightly or wrongly, their nose at the ''sugardaddy'' model. Having experienced American ownership that has changed dramatically and the majority can't wait for Usmanov to take over.So yes,we are jealous.

I also think some of you over estimate how much we ''hate'' you. Abusing Adebayor and the French Lesbian is not the same as hating Manchester City.Kolo and Clichy have not been given a hard time.The majority were pleased you pipped United to the title.

One thing you are wrong about is that MCFC is or will become the model other clubs should follow. Apart from the fact there aren't enough Mansours and Abramoviches to go round,ownership by one person is wrong.Yes, benefactors like yours and Chelski's are better than the crooks at United,Arsenal and previously Liverpool, but its a sad state of affairs when the best a club can strive for is a wealthy benefactor.

Clubs who should be seen as a model are the likes of Swansea and WBA.Plural ownership,fans in the boardroom and generally well managed. Proper football clubs. The majority of German clubs are like that, and it makes the Bundesliga the most fan friendly of the major leagues.

In terms of model, it was regarding the infrastructure that our owners our putting in place, the likes of the academy and the facilities that will be built for our club. Although our owners have spent money on the first team and will continue to do so but not at the past spending level....the plan is to direct funds now into the academy so that we can produce a constant supply of youth talent.

The powers that be at our club - Soriano & Txiki are over-seeing this so that whoever is managing our club has a supply line of talented youth players that will be able to be implemented into the first team when required.

This is the "model" that I meant. IMO in years & decades to come our academy will be looked upon alongside the La Masia of Barcelona.

 

[gooner6729]

Maybe Arsenal fans need to get real instead of having a go at us for our money.

Is it our fault that for some reason the Arsenal board will not allow a certain person control of the club, who so happens to have money - NO

Is it our fault that your manager and owners sell your best players to rival teams so that they can be strengthened - NO

Is it our fault that your owners allow you to be ripped off over ticket prices yet continually not win a trophy for god knows how long - NO

Don't have a pop at us just because we have owners who actually want us to succeed and win trophies.

At my son's football club, i was speaking to another dad who is an arsenal fan, he works for a contracting firm based in the North West and stated that he was at the site where we are building our new academy. He said that he could not believe the size of the project and was amazed at what our club is doing. This was the same fella who slagged our academy off not too long ago to myself.

Yes you can look over at our club....but instead of being bitter and making snide remarks, maybe you should look on and see how a club should treat its fans and then ask why your club does not do the same.

Arsenal fans should focus on getting your own house in order before passing comments on our club.
We have everything in place to continue our improvement for decades. In years to come MCFC will become THE model in which all premier teams will want to follow and reproduce. This is the legacy that our owners are providing and fulfilling for our club - and most of all us the fans.

Not much wrong with that, although some of you don't seem to realise our fans are protesting against our board and the direction the club has taken. 5 years ago the majority of our support would have looked down,rightly or wrongly, their nose at the ''sugardaddy'' model. Having experienced American ownership that has changed dramatically and the majority can't wait for Usmanov to take over.So yes,we are jealous.

I also think some of you over estimate how much we ''hate'' you. Abusing Adebayor and the French Lesbian is not the same as hating Manchester City.Kolo and Clichy have not been given a hard time.The majority were pleased you pipped United to the title.

One thing you are wrong about is that MCFC is or will become the model other clubs should follow. Apart from the fact there aren't enough Mansours and Abramoviches to go round,ownership by one person is wrong.Yes, benefactors like yours and Chelski's are better than the crooks at United,Arsenal and previously Liverpool, but its a sad state of affairs when the best a club can strive for is a wealthy benefactor.

Clubs who should be seen as a model are the likes of Swansea and WBA.Plural ownership,fans in the boardroom and generally well managed. Proper football clubs. The majority of German clubs are like that, and it makes the Bundesliga the most fan friendly of the major leagues.

In terms of model, it was regarding the infrastructure that our owners our putting in place, the likes of the academy and the facilities that will be built for our club. Although our owners have spent money on the first team and will continue to do so but not at the past spending level....the plan is to direct funds now into the academy so that we can produce a constant supply of youth talent.

The powers that be at our club - Soriano & Txiki are over-seeing this so that whoever is managing our club has a supply line of talented youth players that will be able to be implemented into the first team when required.

This is the "model" that I meant. IMO in years & decades to come our academy will be looked upon alongside the La Masia of Barcelona.

OK,sorry, misunderstood you first time round. I don't think its feasible for any English club to replicate La Masia. We've been trying for years and only got two genuine youth products (Wilshere,Gibbs) and one academy player (Sczesny) in our first 11. Its not just about facilities and coaching. Its about some of the hare-brained rules in this country(kids can only train x number of hours, kids have to live within certain postcodes etc). If you do better on that front then all credit to you.

 

[bluesoup]

In addition to the model is to be an academy to compliment the youth development... Schooling and sport in one campus - now that is the future!

 

[moomba]

OK,sorry, misunderstood you first time round. I don't think its feasible for any English club to replicate La Masia. We've been trying for years and only got two genuine youth products (Wilshere,Gibbs) and one academy player (Sczesny) in our first 11. Its not just about facilities and coaching. Its about some of the hare-brained rules in this country(kids can only train x number of hours, kids have to live within certain postcodes etc). If you do better on that front then all credit to you.

The rules have changed quite significantly in the last year. The rules relating to where you can recruit players and the number of hours of training the top academies can give have also changed significantly as part of the new rules.

I would imagine Arsenal would be a cat A academy sho will also get a benefit from those changes.

 

[gooner6729]

Asked this question on the pre match day thread and as yet no takers from the Arsenal side so i'll ask again on this thread.

I genuinely would like to know what City or any other club outside of the traditional top 4 were/are supposed to do to break into that elite top four and then go on and sustain it for years whilst acheiving any degree of success coupling the Champions League along the way.

Spurs and Everton (members of the pre-Premiership old big 5 ) have broken into the top 4, but not regularly, so you are right,the only way is to buy your way into it. If you do it off your own back the result was/is disaster (Leeds, pre-Abramovich Chelsea), so nobody should begrudge you the good fortune.

It doesn't help football overall though. All its done apart from pushing up prices/wages is replace 2 old clubs (Liverpool and Arsenal) with 2 new ones (Chelski and you), so the bigger picture hasn't changed.There are just 3 realistic title contenders which would turn into 4 if Usmanov was allowed to take over the Arsenal.The Premier League turned English football into a Mickey Mouse League.

In the 25 years prior to the PL 9 different clubs won the title. Lots of others came close. At the moment it looks like only 3 will carve up the next 25. As you said yourself, fans at Villa,Everton and Newcastle can't even dream anymore. Even without FFP there are only so many sheiks and oligarchs to go round.

The irony is that of the original big 5 who pushed for the Premiership, only United have survived.

 

[moomba]

All its done apart from pushing up prices/wages

No-one has forced anyone to increase wages or ticket prices.

Arsenals increases in income (non matchday) over the past 5 years have more than covered their increase in the wage bill. And they could have cut ticket prices by 30% across the board last year, paid all their wages, paid all their commitments relating to the stadium and still ended up in profit.

 

[Blue2112]

Asked this question on the pre match day thread and as yet no takers from the Arsenal side so i'll ask again on this thread.

I genuinely would like to know what City or any other club outside of the traditional top 4 were/are supposed to do to break into that elite top four and then go on and sustain it for years whilst acheiving any degree of success coupling the Champions League along the way.

Spurs and Everton (members of the pre-Premiership old big 5 ) have broken into the top 4, but not regularly, so you are right,the only way is to buy your way into it. If you do it off your own back the result was/is disaster (Leeds, pre-Abramovich Chelsea), so nobody should begrudge you the good fortune.

It doesn't help football overall though. All its done apart from pushing up prices/wages is replace 2 old clubs (Liverpool and Arsenal) with 2 new ones (Chelski and you), so the bigger picture hasn't changed.There are just 3 realistic title contenders which would turn into 4 if Usmanov was allowed to take over the Arsenal.The Premier League turned English football into a Mickey Mouse League.

In the 25 years prior to the PL 9 different clubs won the title. Lots of others came close. At the moment it looks like only 3 will carve up the next 25. As you said yourself, fans at Villa,Everton and Newcastle can't even dream anymore. Even without FFP there are only so many sheiks and oligarchs to go round.

The irony is that of the original big 5 who pushed for the Premiership, only United have survived.

Fair play to you Matty for being the first Gooner to put an answer to that question but as you say there really is no other way apart from buying into it if you want to sustain that position consitently year on year. The rewards once you acheive that can largely go to self perpetuating that position which has been the case for the traditional top 4 clubs. Yes it might not help football overall but then the same applies to how the rest of us viewed football outside of the top 4 for the past two decades. That's the harsh reality of football today. I don't particularly agree with the way it's going to be for the forseeable future but then we've had to soak it up and stick by our club when the chips were down in the same way your probably going to have to be doing for a few years more at the very least.

Enjoy the game tomorrow and let's hope it's a great game with a City win (finally) ;-)

 

[Marvin]

The Sky 4 "rules" made Arsenal complacent - all of a sudden City and Chelsea come along and they are pushed out of their complacency

Wenger and the Arsenal board have made some big mistakes that means that they have not capitalised on their early footballing dominance with commercial success which should have reinforced each other.

 

[Gio83]

Typical blinkered arsenal fan, in wenger we trust eh. It's hilarious, blinded by the fact that they were paying silly money for tickets before our sugar daddy came along. But he must be right because its obvious the arsenal way works doesn't it ha.