No need to shout, nor did I say Revenge is Justice. I said call it what you will. You for the sake of you're argument choose to read the word revenge. Personally I believe this bastard being dead is justice for the tens of thousands of lives this man and his sick idealogy saw fit to extinguish. He may not have personally pulled any triggers but he is without question culpable. Good riddance to the c--t.Damocles said:SWP's back said:Sorry, can't be arsed trawling through 50 odd pages.
How are you moral on this subject? 9/11 or not, his training camps hardly helped for "world peace" and I presume you agree he is responsible for the attacks on embassy's and that US ship?
No, Bin Laden had absolutely nothing to do with the USS Cole, and I don't even think anybody has ever tried to even claim that. The US has officially blamed the Sudanese government as liable for the attacks. Lastly, you're going to have to do a better job of labelling people terrorists for attacking military targets.
The U.S. Embassy bombings, he is believed to have planned and executed as a leading figure. This was a retaliatory strike for the US kidnapping and illegally torturing four members of his group a month or two earlier. Well, either that or part of Bin Laden's plan in trying to get rid of the US from Muslim Holy Land; pick your poison on this one I'm afraid.
In retaliation for this, Clinton launched a shedload of cruise missiles at Afghanistan and Sudan, hitting numerous civilian targets and factories.
My point is, this moral nonequivalence of people is hypocritical. All of them are killers, no matter on which side of the fence. One sides army kills because of a deep spiritual belief, the other sides army kills because they are ordered to. There's no "good reason" to kill somebody, it's really that simple. Everybody is allowed the right to a fair trial; everybody. Our whole system of justice is built around this tenet, if we give that up, then seriously, what is the fucking point any more?
A society can be judged on how it treats its criminals.
You know from previous threads that I am not an advocate of capital punishment, I am strongly against it, but I am sure as hell glad that this **** is dead. Piece of shit scrote that he was.
He was an extremist who believed that what he was doing was God's will, and that he was chosen to lead by God, as a way of cleansing the world of evil. During this campaign, he killed thousands of innocent civilians whose only crime was been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh wait, that was George Bush.
-- Tue May 03, 2011 10:27 am --
bluemoonmatt said:Couldn't have put this better if I had tried. The problem with the self proclaimed morality crew is that there is always a flip side to their view. What about the moral right to justice/revenge (call it what you will) for the victims of this evil bastard, do they not matter.
The world is a better place now it no longer has Osama Bin Laden in it, and I'm genuinely shocked anyone can argue otherwise.
REVENGE ISN'T JUSTICE; EVEN JESUS FUCKING CHRIST KNEW THIS!
BoyBlue_1985 said:Damocles said:I see you entirely missed the point there.
No i didnt miss the point i read all your babble and picked out one part i wanted to comment on, that was all. Your obviously too smart for me so i will move along before i get too confused
Damocles said:BoyBlue_1985 said:No i didnt miss the point i read all your babble and picked out one part i wanted to comment on, that was all. Your obviously too smart for me so i will move along before i get too confused
No, you missed the point because I never said that Bin Laden was doing God's work, I said that Bush was. Re-read it.
bluemoonmatt said:No need to shout, nor did I say Revenge is Justice. I said call it what you will. You for the sake of you're argument choose to read the word revenge. Personally I believe this bastard being dead is justice for the tens of thousands of lives this man and his sick idealogy saw fit to extinguish. He may not have personally pulled any triggers but he is without question culpable. Good riddance to the c--t.
SWP's back said:Longsight-memories said:so you belive the yanks shot him ??
i dont, would guess his Son.. or wife.. more than the yanks..
Don't know if serious......
-- Tue May 03, 2011 11:11 am --
cockneycarparkm32 said:He may be dead, but his Ideology lives on . God help us all
It is that word and its silly bronze age mentality that has gotten us into this mess in the first place.
Damocles said:bluemoonmatt said:No need to shout, nor did I say Revenge is Justice. I said call it what you will. You for the sake of you're argument choose to read the word revenge. Personally I believe this bastard being dead is justice for the tens of thousands of lives this man and his sick idealogy saw fit to extinguish. He may not have personally pulled any triggers but he is without question culpable. Good riddance to the c--t.
Sorry, I've heard that revenge argument too many times over the past day or so and expected it again, my bad.
OBL been dead isn't justice for anything or anyone. Justice cannot be extracted from an assassination in retaliation for an event. Justice would have been a trial at the Hague, for everybody involved in this mess. If Bin Laden is culpable for 9/11 as an inspirational figure, then Ronald Reagan is culpable for the war in Iraq.
Here's a nice MLK quote which I find starkly relevant:
Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction. So when Jesus says "Love your enemies," he is setting forth a profound and ultimately inescapable admonition. ... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.
BoyBlue_1985 said:Your right you said he believed he was doing Gods will, which is 1 in the same thing. Either way this man lead many people to there death, or very painful injuries, memories in his beliefs. I see you can level this at the British and American governments (leading people to there death) but are they just supposed to stand by as these people attack civilians at will. It cant be left untackled and it shouldnt but unfortunatly diplomacy and nice words dont stop terrorists.
Provoke the United States into invading a Muslim country.
Incite local resistance to occupying forces.
Expand the conflict to neighboring countries, and engage the U.S. in a long war of attrition.
Convert Al-Qaeda into an ideology and set of operating principles that can be loosely franchised in other countries without requiring direct command and control, and via these franchises incite attacks against countries allied with the U.S. until they withdraw from the conflict, as happened with the 2004 Madrid train bombings, but which did not have the same effect with the 7 July 2005 London bombings.
The U.S. economy will finally collapse under the strain of too many engagements in too many places, similarly to the Soviet war in Afghanistan, Arab regimes supported by the U.S. will collapse, and a Wahhabi Caliphate will be installed across the region.
Damocles said:SWP's back said:Sorry, can't be arsed trawling through 50 odd pages.
How are you moral on this subject? 9/11 or not, his training camps hardly helped for "world peace" and I presume you agree he is responsible for the attacks on embassy's and that US ship?
No, Bin Laden had absolutely nothing to do with the USS Cole, and I don't even think anybody has ever tried to even claim that. The US has officially blamed the Sudanese government as liable for the attacks. Lastly, you're going to have to do a better job of labelling people terrorists for attacking military targets.
The U.S. Embassy bombings, he is believed to have planned and executed as a leading figure. This was a retaliatory strike for the US kidnapping and illegally torturing four members of his group a month or two earlier. Well, either that or part of Bin Laden's plan in trying to get rid of the US from Muslim Holy Land; pick your poison on this one I'm afraid.
In retaliation for this, Clinton launched a shedload of cruise missiles at Afghanistan and Sudan, hitting numerous civilian targets and factories.
My point is, this moral nonequivalence of people is hypocritical. All of them are killers, no matter on which side of the fence. One sides army kills because of a deep spiritual belief, the other sides army kills because they are ordered to. There's no "good reason" to kill somebody, it's really that simple. Everybody is allowed the right to a fair trial; everybody. Our whole system of justice is built around this tenet, if we give that up, then seriously, what is the fucking point any more?
A society can be judged on how it treats its criminals.
You know from previous threads that I am not an advocate of capital punishment, I am strongly against it, but I am sure as hell glad that this **** is dead. Piece of shit scrote that he was.
He was an extremist who believed that what he was doing was God's will, and that he was chosen to lead by God, as a way of cleansing the world of evil. During this campaign, he killed thousands of innocent civilians whose only crime was been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh wait, that was George Bush.
JoeMercer'sWay said:so you believe the Americans went in to simply assassinate him straight off the bat and did not try to capture him which he refused and therefore a gun fight broke out leading to his death?