Our attack - what's off?

Exeter Blue I am here said:
1. I didn't say that I thought 36 year old Fernandinho could perform the role described - I pretty obviously meant peak-era Fernandinho.
2. I never said, or even insinuated, that Liverpool had never torn into us before.....although that was unquestionably the worst 30 minutes they've put us through in recent years at the Etihad.
3. This thread isn't confined to yesterday's game. It embraces a growing number of performances over the course of the last 18 months (11 defeats last season, most of which featured the Rodri/Gundogan double act).
4. Again, very obviously there are other factors at play - loss of Sane and Silva, etc - but the demise of Fernandinho has been the biggest in my opinion.
5. It's a forum full of opinions, and describing someone lamenting the loss of an acknowledged (by plenty of people and pundits) key midfield component, as delusional, is frankly, erm, delusional.
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1. Typing "Simple answer, Fernandinho" reads to anyone that you think the answer is current Fernandinho otherwise you would out the caveat of in his prime there.

2. Can't agree on that, they had some dangerous plays but they came to nothing and I think the only real chance they had was a penalty unless you count the Henderson shot that went 10 yards wide. We have had games before where the keeper has made 3 - 4 good saves in their period of dominance or we have just conceded a couple of goals.

3. The Gundogan Rodri midfield has its place such as the win against Madrid last season (I think they also played in most of other big game wins last season). I don't think changing this will magically improve our results when there are issues everywhere in front of the back 5.

4. Your post read that we need current Fernandinho back to sort the issues, that is a delusional opinion.

6. I wasn't in a box, not sure what this is getting at?
 
Scaring Europe to Death said:
I don't always expect Sterling to score when through on goal, but I'm rapidly reaching the point, where I don't even expect him to shoot.
He's a hot-and-cold striker, who repeatedly comes out of a barren spell with 10 goals in 10 games, but his combination play is non existent, and he rarely assists or even crosses the ball.
I suspect that with a full stadium, the referee would have awarded a free kick for the push on Sterling, in the move that led to the Liverpool penalty.
However, it's precisely that type of dribble, that always finishes with Sterling on the floor, either through foul play or a fair tackle.
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He is way to easy to disposess.
Then if he does get into their box his body and brain a rarely in tandem, to find the correct pass
 
domalino said:
The problem is we didn't replace Silva.

Several journalists have relayed that 3 or 4 times this season Foden has basically been given a bollocking by Pep or KDB or someone else for not keeping hold of the ball, and he's given the ball away a lot, carelessly, that's why he can't play the role Silva did. He's too attack focused, he doesn't know how when to just calm down and restart an attack instead of forcing the ball and losing possession.

So then there's a choice between Bernardo or Gundogan as KDB's partner, and Bernardo has played awfully for more than a year now and has never looked good playing next to KDB. Gundogan doesn't have the energy to do the defensive work.


This problem is the consequence of Pep taking 4 years to bring Foden through. He doesn't have the experience and maturity to play Silva's role and it could be another 100 games in that position before he does.
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I don't think Foden will ever replace Silva controlling aspect of the game. He is a goal scorer and wants to drive forward and play as almost a second striker positionally.

I don't think it's worth neutering the best aspect of his game to be more calm and controlled in possession when it's unlikely he will ever be world class at that.

The big issue is that it doesn't look like he and Kevin can play together, as like you say they are both risk takers and we can't have two midfielders who will end up with 80% passing accuracy in the system Pep plays.

I don't envy Pep trying to figure out the best balance of the team!
 
EdersonsSmiley said:
I don't think Foden will ever replace Silva controlling aspect of the game. He is a goal scorer and wants to drive forward and play as almost a second striker positionally.

I don't think it's worth neutering the best aspect of his game to be more calm and controlled in possession when it's unlikely he will ever be world class at that.

The big issue is that it doesn't look like he and Kevin can play together, as like you say they are both risk takers and we can't have two midfielders who will end up with 80% passing accuracy in the system Pep plays.

I don't envy Pep trying to figure out the best balance of the team!
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All good number 10's start out wanting to drive forward and score goals, and then they grow up.

Do you think KDB would still like to be scoring 20 a season like he did as a 22/23 year old? Silva scored a lot more goals for Valencia than at City.

If he doesn't learn to protect the ball then he'll never make it at the top level. If he has to sacrifice some goals for that (I don't think he does necessarily) then it's not really an optional choice.
 
Took a while for Silva too to adapt, I’m not sure looking to replicate the Silva De Bruyne central midfield will work anyway as we don’t have a peak Fernandinho behind it to support it. Really were blessed both to have those three players and for Guardiola to try that system in the first place, most managers wouldn’t have done it.
 
Seems to be just getting back on track imo. Jesus only just back and has scored each game he's played. Torres looks decent. We scored 3 last game and one against last years winners. Augero is out. Not quite panic stations is it?
 
domalino said:
All good number 10's start out wanting to drive forward and score goals, and then they grow up.

Do you think KDB would still like to be scoring 20 a season like he did as a 22/23 year old? Silva scored a lot more goals for Valencia than at City.

If he doesn't learn to protect the ball then he'll never make it at the top level. If he has to sacrifice some goals for that (I don't think he does necessarily) then it's not really an optional choice.
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Both rubbish.
 
Sterling is shi*e that’s the problem and 25 min against 36 year old Milner and he doesn’t beat him once says it all.
 
domalino said:
All good number 10's start out wanting to drive forward and score goals, and then they grow up.

Do you think KDB would still like to be scoring 20 a season like he did as a 22/23 year old? Silva scored a lot more goals for Valencia than at City.

If he doesn't learn to protect the ball then he'll never make it at the top level. If he has to sacrifice some goals for that (I don't think he does necessarily) then it's not really an optional choice.
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I get what you mean but I think Foden is a huge amount more attacking than Silva.

He is like Kevin or Ozil where he can be getting 30+ goals and assist a season. He is capable of learning to slow things down on occasion but I can't see a huge change happening this season or even by next season.

So then the question is, is it better to play Phil in a role that suits his natural talent and looking into the market for that more controlling player we need.

I think Bernardo has a bigger chance of being that player but unfortunately both he and Kevin love that inside right position.
 
Not having a striker for many games didn't help. And then the 1st game we do have one is against Liverpool, a good team that defend with multiple defensive midfielders.


We're clearly suffering from not having Silva, and De Bruyne has been a bit wasteful with his creativity. But I'd like to see us play a run of games with strike options before I get too concerned.
 
Hoof it up to a big lad, go after the knock downs and second balls. Leg it dead fast, get stuck in and hoof it up once more. It's a simple game.
 
I think we over do instead of having a crack at goal. It's quite obvious we are lacking goals. 7 games and only plus 1. The injury to aguero hasn't helped and gabby plus losing silva. Kdb looks jaded and should have been replaced yesterday. Although we made some good signings over the summer I'd have liked to see another striker come in. A centre forward, a replacement for aguero who let's face it is now in his 30s and picking up injuries regular. Not easy though with his record. Another big Big miss fernandinho, again ageing and I ain't sure his replacement is up to it!
 
I would like us to try something like this

———————Ederson————————
———Dias———Laporte———Ake———
Walker————————————Cancelo
———————De Bruyne———————
———-Sterling————Bernardo———
————————Foden————————
————————Jesus————————
 
Lack of 1v1 quality from what I have seen. The collective play is always there but Pep's teams always coupled this with elite 1v1 individual quality players and that is absent atm

I thought that person might be Sterling but that has not been the case, especially on the left which I still cannot understand why Pep insists on him there

Else, it puts a lot of pressure on the collective play being seamless & clinical in front of goal without an elite standout player to make the difference

Then there are the FBs which remains an issue
 
Boils down to pace for me, a few have said it in this thread and it seems fairly obvious watching us.
Peps had 3 sides that have all been almost untouchable, his original Barca side, his Bayern side and then our side of 3 years ago.

All had one thing in common, pace to burn in the front 3, Pedro, Messi, Henry, Etoo. Then Bayern he had robben, ribery, Coman. He comes to city who have sterling, he buys sane to add more pace.

If you want to press you need pace so you can do it so fast the oppo can’t handle it! That’s why Liverpool are so good. Salah and mane are pressing you at lightning speed. Then once you lose it the balls gone and in your box before you know what’s happend. City was so fast once we won the ball in the a press a few years ago.

Now we pass sideways or Gundo jogs forward and then plays a one two with the centre back before even considering a forward pass.
We don’t press at speed cause we don’t have the legs then we can’t attack at speed cause we have no runners. If we had Sane or someone with similar pace yesterday we would of beat Liverpool as they wouldn’t of handled it.

The tempo is so slow as the players don’t have anyone with any speed to up it, gundo and Rodri are so so slow and it’s frustrating they are a bit part of the problem but if they had more pace outside they would look twice as good as they would know win it and play in behind the full back at first chance.

Our forward line has been declining for a couple
Of seasons and nothings been done to fix it yet.

We’ve got the defence looking good so hopefully the next part of the plan is to refresh the front line.
I’d take Messi but I wouldn’t put him out wide, I’d play Rodri as DM, KDB box to box and then messi close in behind the striker where he doesn’t have to run as much but can get in the pocket.
 
EdersonsSmiley said:
1. Typing "Simple answer, Fernandinho" reads to anyone that you think the answer is current Fernandinho otherwise you would out the caveat of in his prime there.

2. Can't agree on that, they had some dangerous plays but they came to nothing and I think the only real chance they had was a penalty unless you count the Henderson shot that went 10 yards wide. We have had games before where the keeper has made 3 - 4 good saves in their period of dominance or we have just conceded a couple of goals.

3. The Gundogan Rodri midfield has its place such as the win against Madrid last season (I think they also played in most of other big game wins last season). I don't think changing this will magically improve our results when there are issues everywhere in front of the back 5.

4. Your post read that we need current Fernandinho back to sort the issues, that is a delusional opinion.

6. I wasn't in a box, not sure what this is getting at?
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The fact that you referred to my “making out that Fernandinho in his prime would magically fix all of our problems....” suggests you understood perfectly well that I did not have the 36 year old version in mind
 
Lack of goals from anywhere else on the pitch is a worry for me and teams know it. See out Jesus and Sterling and we are unlikely to score. Bernardos threat has dropped off a cliff, Foden is sat on the bench, KDB looks knackered and we just aren't getting enough from Mahrez.

Torres and Gundogan have found some goals in the CL but we need them in the prem and quickly. Defensively we have looked quite strong and we are still creating a few chances but seems like a lot fewer than normal.
 
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