Our attack - what's off?

DorisBlue said:
People talking about inverted vs wide wingers being the problem are ignoring the fact that liverpools mane and salah are inverted wingers exactly the same as sterling and mahrez are.
Theyre just better.

Our problem is fully down to our speed of play. We are too slow which allows oppositions to get back into shape so they can defend well.

Not only that, because theyre in shape they can then counter attack us because everyone is in the right starting place. Hence we keep getting done.

Rodri is slower than fern. We dont have silva anymore and gundo, bernardo arent the same level and de bruyne isnt picking up the space he used to.

With the players we have, we need a new formation or new style to break the rhythm. Oppositions can plan to play us and the game plays out exactly how they expect it
Click to expand...

Liverpool’s system also works far better to get the best out of the inverted wingers in a way that ours does not.

In sacrificing a true creative midfielder in favour of 3 workhorses, they are able to send both full backs bombing forward on the touch line constantly. Their wingers then effectively play in the 18yd box without sacrificing width.

At best we have 1 fullback forward, but for the most part these days (thanks to cancelo on the left) both are tucked in into central midfield positions (check the heat map from Saturday for example). It leaves us with 4/5 players all trying to occupy the same central section in the final third. Meat and drink for an organised opponent in a 541.
 
Every single problem we have stems from the loss of David and Fernandinho. Both of them would be demanding more and putting their bodies on the line to get the win. Prime Fern would be moving the ball forward as soon as he gets it, and David would be sliding wonderful balls through for the attackers to assist or finish.
 
David Silva said:
Liverpool’s system also works far better to get the best out of the inverted wingers in a way that ours does not.

In sacrificing a true creative midfielder in favour of 3 workhorses, they are able to send both full backs bombing forward on the touch line constantly. Their wingers then effectively play in the 18yd box without sacrificing width.

At best we have 1 fullback forward, but for the most part these days (thanks to cancelo on the left) both are tucked in into central midfield positions (check the heat map from Saturday for example). It leaves us with 4/5 players all trying to occupy the same central section in the final third. Meat and drink for an organised opponent in a 541.
Click to expand...
Their system is perfect in its simplicity. I envy it a lot and the way they have the perfect players for each position within that system. Sounds alien, I know, but I wish we did that.
 
Adebayor said:
Every single problem we have stems from the loss of David and Fernandinho. Both of them would be demanding more and putting their bodies on the line to get the win. Prime Fern would be moving the ball forward as soon as he gets it, and David would be sliding wonderful balls through for the attackers to assist or finish.
Click to expand...

Agree they are a big loss but we can't clone players or buy exact replicas also the width and how we use it is a big issue for us.

We need to address the balance which means selling a left back that isn't a left back or back up defender ie zinchenko and one of our many right sided players

Sterling
Foden
Mahrez
Silva
Torres

Which one stands out? Which one doesn't naturally play in another position?
 
Tricky_Trev said:
Their system is perfect in its simplicity. I envy it a lot and the way they have the perfect players for each position within that system. Sounds alien, I know, but I wish we did that.
Click to expand...


Your on to something there. Our philosophy in recent years has been to sign players that can play in more than one position.
It’s meant we have players that are good at 2 positions but not the best at the position we actually need.
If pep thinks he knows how to win then go
Get the best players for that system.
 
I have been getting fed up of our impotence in attack for a while. I don't know exactly what's wrong or how to fix it. But I know that I feel much the same after the Spurs game as I did after the SheffUtd game.

Then I vented and ended up with the comments below...
There is no joy in that City squad. Certainly no joy watching them. I enjoyed the Pearce days more than this. And I'm not joking. Give me Vassell and Cole over Sterling and Mahrez. Or Bosvelt over Rodri. We are awful. Something needs to change. Probably the only change is me walking away finally.
Click to expand...
(my walking away isn't because we are frustrating to watch. It's the the rules, VAR, the refs, the officials, the sports media, etc. I don't know if I'll ever give up on City or on this forum but I don't enjoy either at the moment and even in our worst days in the past I couldn't say that.)

These are the comments I got for posting the above. Some are decent replies, some are funny but many just show that there's no point in me venting about my team on this forum.
- Jesus Christ. Talk about spoilt! @domalino
- I’d prefer to view as easing our way back after a dodgy spell. In that context a 1-0 away win is just fine. @sir baconface
- Nurse... @yeseye
- You’re either on the wind up or you’re an idiot if you prefer the Pearce days. This City team only seems boring now because of the standards we’ve set since Pep arrived. @Manchester_lalala
- Walk away and keep walking, you prefer the Pearce days? Whats up are you fucked off we won? Sounds exactly like that to me. What an absolute nobhead of a post, we just won away at a difficult place. Get to fuck. @manimanc
- Bless,the other half ignoring you? so you come on here for attention? @FantasyIreland
- Wow! Scratching my head here as that is some nonsense you have just spouted. @wolviedinho
The problem is we aren't shit. That's why your opinion is fucking absurd. We're 2 points off the top of the table (with a game in hand) and you're having a hissy fit and talking about quitting football because we won 1-0 away to one of the best defensive teams in the country, with no fit strikers and sandwiched inbetween 2 Champions League games. Take a deep breath, take a step back, and realise how ridiculous it is to compare that to the Pearce days. @domalino
- Good riddance with that attitude. Wow. Some have forgotten how good we have it @DorisBlue
- Someone's got Covid fever, it makes you chat shite. @cookster
- Bye then @Stickwell
- Lay off the drugs mate @M12Blue
- Jesus wept , Vassell and Cole over Sterling and Mahrez , go and have a lie down. @jimmygrimblesboots
- It'll end the danger of me ending up sat next to you at least. @blueparrot
- If you’re being serious you might as well walk away now. I suspect you’re on the wind up though. @west didsblue
- Yeah you're right, that Pearce team would batter this current Pep team. @Quagmire blue
- In fairness Tony, you caught a few with that. :) @BongoBlue
- Not sure we need fans like you, maybe it's best you do stop supporting city, you sound like a right slapped arse @peace frog
- Feck me, give your head a wobble or do like you say, walk away @IBlue
- Lol really who do you support ? And dont say City.... @give it to gordon
- Bye @BringBackSwales
- David Conn? @supersonicblue
- You must be a miserable old git...:) @Mancity1980
- I thought we were excellent 1st half mate. I'm surprised at your criticisms. Our possession and speed of moving the ball around was 1st rate. I think we got tired later on, and they brought on Lundstrum, their best midfielder. Rodri I thought had a great game. Our defence is looking like a solid outfit. @nimrod
- Ever considered happy pills? @Centurions
- Jog on then! Dont let the door slam on your way out. @applecentral
- Don’t make a noise when you shut the door. @toffee balls
- You are a bundle of laughs. Pep is being very shrewd and trying to protect his squad as we are playing two games a week at the moment. I will take a clean sheet every day, the goals will start flowing if we stay solid at the back. @Gray
- So you prefer Andy Fuckin Cole over Sterling. The most moronic post of the week, month, year, goes to you. Ta ta. @Sky Blue
- Trolling of the highest order, I salute you sir. And I'm sure you're feeling nice and full after several feedings :) @ActonBlue
- Hahahaha - I bet in Salford you were glad that citeh had that team - good bit of research there. How can you walk away when you’ve never been here in the first place @CC1
- Off you pop then,you wont be fucking missed. @salford blue 62
- You may be as well sticking to the hurling and Gaelic Football in that case. @jimharri
- What bait are you using? @Gingers Dad
- Hey now, ya fucker - don't forget leave out Mpenza and Sibierski. @Wretched Vengeance

I've been on Man City forums since the days of MCIVTA emails. Nearly 30 years. I have shared personal details and thought that got to "know" others. I used to enjoy posting but now I'm generally "afraid" to. I certainly learned a lesson from my last post.

No doubt I'll get more abuse from a few but I can assure you that I am a City Supporter.
 
TonyM said:
I have been getting fed up of our impotence in attack for a while. I don't know exactly what's wrong or how to fix it. But I know that I feel much the same after the Spurs game as I did after the SheffUtd game.

Then I vented and ended up with the comments below...

(my walking away isn't because we are frustrating to watch. It's the the rules, VAR, the refs, the officials, the sports media, etc. I don't know if I'll ever give up on City or on this forum but I don't enjoy either at the moment and even in our worst days in the past I couldn't say that.)

These are the comments I got for posting the above. Some are decent replies, some are funny but many just show that there's no point in me venting about my team on this forum.
- Jesus Christ. Talk about spoilt! @domalino
- I’d prefer to view as easing our way back after a dodgy spell. In that context a 1-0 away win is just fine. @sir baconface
- Nurse... @yeseye
- You’re either on the wind up or you’re an idiot if you prefer the Pearce days. This City team only seems boring now because of the standards we’ve set since Pep arrived. @Manchester_lalala
- Walk away and keep walking, you prefer the Pearce days? Whats up are you fucked off we won? Sounds exactly like that to me. What an absolute nobhead of a post, we just won away at a difficult place. Get to fuck. @manimanc
- Bless,the other half ignoring you? so you come on here for attention? @FantasyIreland
- Wow! Scratching my head here as that is some nonsense you have just spouted. @wolviedinho
The problem is we aren't shit. That's why your opinion is fucking absurd. We're 2 points off the top of the table (with a game in hand) and you're having a hissy fit and talking about quitting football because we won 1-0 away to one of the best defensive teams in the country, with no fit strikers and sandwiched inbetween 2 Champions League games. Take a deep breath, take a step back, and realise how ridiculous it is to compare that to the Pearce days. @domalino
- Good riddance with that attitude. Wow. Some have forgotten how good we have it @DorisBlue
- Someone's got Covid fever, it makes you chat shite. @cookster
- Bye then @Stickwell
- Lay off the drugs mate @M12Blue
- Jesus wept , Vassell and Cole over Sterling and Mahrez , go and have a lie down. @jimmygrimblesboots
- It'll end the danger of me ending up sat next to you at least. @blueparrot
- If you’re being serious you might as well walk away now. I suspect you’re on the wind up though. @west didsblue
- Yeah you're right, that Pearce team would batter this current Pep team. @Quagmire blue
- In fairness Tony, you caught a few with that. :) @BongoBlue
- Not sure we need fans like you, maybe it's best you do stop supporting city, you sound like a right slapped arse @peace frog
- Feck me, give your head a wobble or do like you say, walk away @IBlue
- Lol really who do you support ? And dont say City.... @give it to gordon
- Bye @BringBackSwales
- David Conn? @supersonicblue
- You must be a miserable old git...:) @Mancity1980
- I thought we were excellent 1st half mate. I'm surprised at your criticisms. Our possession and speed of moving the ball around was 1st rate. I think we got tired later on, and they brought on Lundstrum, their best midfielder. Rodri I thought had a great game. Our defence is looking like a solid outfit. @nimrod
- Ever considered happy pills? @Centurions
- Jog on then! Dont let the door slam on your way out. @applecentral
- Don’t make a noise when you shut the door. @toffee balls
- You are a bundle of laughs. Pep is being very shrewd and trying to protect his squad as we are playing two games a week at the moment. I will take a clean sheet every day, the goals will start flowing if we stay solid at the back. @Gray
- So you prefer Andy Fuckin Cole over Sterling. The most moronic post of the week, month, year, goes to you. Ta ta. @Sky Blue
- Trolling of the highest order, I salute you sir. And I'm sure you're feeling nice and full after several feedings :) @ActonBlue
- Hahahaha - I bet in Salford you were glad that citeh had that team - good bit of research there. How can you walk away when you’ve never been here in the first place @CC1
- Off you pop then,you wont be fucking missed. @salford blue 62
- You may be as well sticking to the hurling and Gaelic Football in that case. @jimharri
- What bait are you using? @Gingers Dad
- Hey now, ya fucker - don't forget leave out Mpenza and Sibierski. @Wretched Vengeance

I've been on Man City forums since the days of MCIVTA emails. Nearly 30 years. I have shared personal details and thought that got to "know" others. I used to enjoy posting but now I'm generally "afraid" to. I certainly learned a lesson from my last post.

No doubt I'll get more abuse from a few but I can assure you that I am a City Supporter.
Click to expand...

If you are going to walk away, walk away. Don't turn up after every loss to tell us how that was the final straw, you're done with football... only to pop up in the next post match thread to say the same thing.

For what it's worth, I still think complaining that we're shitter than during the Pearce days when we're going to book out place in the Last 16 of the Champions League on Wednesday, and are 5 points off the top of the league if we win our game in hand is a load of melodramatic nonsense.
 
Last edited:
TonyM said:
I have been getting fed up of our impotence in attack for a while. I don't know exactly what's wrong or how to fix it. But I know that I feel much the same after the Spurs game as I did after the SheffUtd game.

Then I vented and ended up with the comments below...

(my walking away isn't because we are frustrating to watch. It's the the rules, VAR, the refs, the officials, the sports media, etc. I don't know if I'll ever give up on City or on this forum but I don't enjoy either at the moment and even in our worst days in the past I couldn't say that.)

These are the comments I got for posting the above. Some are decent replies, some are funny but many just show that there's no point in me venting about my team on this forum.
- Jesus Christ. Talk about spoilt! @domalino
- I’d prefer to view as easing our way back after a dodgy spell. In that context a 1-0 away win is just fine. @sir baconface
- Nurse... @yeseye
- You’re either on the wind up or you’re an idiot if you prefer the Pearce days. This City team only seems boring now because of the standards we’ve set since Pep arrived. @Manchester_lalala
- Walk away and keep walking, you prefer the Pearce days? Whats up are you fucked off we won? Sounds exactly like that to me. What an absolute nobhead of a post, we just won away at a difficult place. Get to fuck. @manimanc
- Bless,the other half ignoring you? so you come on here for attention? @FantasyIreland
- Wow! Scratching my head here as that is some nonsense you have just spouted. @wolviedinho
The problem is we aren't shit. That's why your opinion is fucking absurd. We're 2 points off the top of the table (with a game in hand) and you're having a hissy fit and talking about quitting football because we won 1-0 away to one of the best defensive teams in the country, with no fit strikers and sandwiched inbetween 2 Champions League games. Take a deep breath, take a step back, and realise how ridiculous it is to compare that to the Pearce days. @domalino
- Good riddance with that attitude. Wow. Some have forgotten how good we have it @DorisBlue
- Someone's got Covid fever, it makes you chat shite. @cookster
- Bye then @Stickwell
- Lay off the drugs mate @M12Blue
- Jesus wept , Vassell and Cole over Sterling and Mahrez , go and have a lie down. @jimmygrimblesboots
- It'll end the danger of me ending up sat next to you at least. @blueparrot
- If you’re being serious you might as well walk away now. I suspect you’re on the wind up though. @west didsblue
- Yeah you're right, that Pearce team would batter this current Pep team. @Quagmire blue
- In fairness Tony, you caught a few with that. :) @BongoBlue
- Not sure we need fans like you, maybe it's best you do stop supporting city, you sound like a right slapped arse @peace frog
- Feck me, give your head a wobble or do like you say, walk away @IBlue
- Lol really who do you support ? And dont say City.... @give it to gordon
- Bye @BringBackSwales
- David Conn? @supersonicblue
- You must be a miserable old git...:) @Mancity1980
- I thought we were excellent 1st half mate. I'm surprised at your criticisms. Our possession and speed of moving the ball around was 1st rate. I think we got tired later on, and they brought on Lundstrum, their best midfielder. Rodri I thought had a great game. Our defence is looking like a solid outfit. @nimrod
- Ever considered happy pills? @Centurions
- Jog on then! Dont let the door slam on your way out. @applecentral
- Don’t make a noise when you shut the door. @toffee balls
- You are a bundle of laughs. Pep is being very shrewd and trying to protect his squad as we are playing two games a week at the moment. I will take a clean sheet every day, the goals will start flowing if we stay solid at the back. @Gray
- So you prefer Andy Fuckin Cole over Sterling. The most moronic post of the week, month, year, goes to you. Ta ta. @Sky Blue
- Trolling of the highest order, I salute you sir. And I'm sure you're feeling nice and full after several feedings :) @ActonBlue
- Hahahaha - I bet in Salford you were glad that citeh had that team - good bit of research there. How can you walk away when you’ve never been here in the first place @CC1
- Off you pop then,you wont be fucking missed. @salford blue 62
- You may be as well sticking to the hurling and Gaelic Football in that case. @jimharri
- What bait are you using? @Gingers Dad
- Hey now, ya fucker - don't forget leave out Mpenza and Sibierski. @Wretched Vengeance

I've been on Man City forums since the days of MCIVTA emails. Nearly 30 years. I have shared personal details and thought that got to "know" others. I used to enjoy posting but now I'm generally "afraid" to. I certainly learned a lesson from my last post.

No doubt I'll get more abuse from a few but I can assure you that I am a City Supporter.
Click to expand...
Can I take this opportunity to apologise for being a gobshite and replying to you in an ill-mannered and immature way.
I've just read my post and it's cringe, I've actually banned myself from posting in post match threads as I couldn't control my mouth and 9.9 times out of 10 get a thread ban.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and we all don't have to agree on every single thing.
 
manimanc said:
Can I take this opportunity to apologise for being a gobshite and replying to you in an ill-mannered and immature way.
I've just read my post and it's cringe, I've actually banned myself from posting in post match threads as I couldn't control my mouth and 9.9 times out of 10 get a thread ban.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and we all don't have to agree on every single thing.
Click to expand...
Thanks Manimanc. That's seriously made my day.
 
TonyM said:
I have been getting fed up of our impotence in attack for a while. I don't know exactly what's wrong or how to fix it. But I know that I feel much the same after the Spurs game as I did after the SheffUtd game.

Then I vented and ended up with the comments below...

(my walking away isn't because we are frustrating to watch. It's the the rules, VAR, the refs, the officials, the sports media, etc. I don't know if I'll ever give up on City or on this forum but I don't enjoy either at the moment and even in our worst days in the past I couldn't say that.)

These are the comments I got for posting the above. Some are decent replies, some are funny but many just show that there's no point in me venting about my team on this forum.
- Jesus Christ. Talk about spoilt! @domalino
- I’d prefer to view as easing our way back after a dodgy spell. In that context a 1-0 away win is just fine. @sir baconface
- Nurse... @yeseye
- You’re either on the wind up or you’re an idiot if you prefer the Pearce days. This City team only seems boring now because of the standards we’ve set since Pep arrived. @Manchester_lalala
- Walk away and keep walking, you prefer the Pearce days? Whats up are you fucked off we won? Sounds exactly like that to me. What an absolute nobhead of a post, we just won away at a difficult place. Get to fuck. @manimanc
- Bless,the other half ignoring you? so you come on here for attention? @FantasyIreland
- Wow! Scratching my head here as that is some nonsense you have just spouted. @wolviedinho
The problem is we aren't shit. That's why your opinion is fucking absurd. We're 2 points off the top of the table (with a game in hand) and you're having a hissy fit and talking about quitting football because we won 1-0 away to one of the best defensive teams in the country, with no fit strikers and sandwiched inbetween 2 Champions League games. Take a deep breath, take a step back, and realise how ridiculous it is to compare that to the Pearce days. @domalino
- Good riddance with that attitude. Wow. Some have forgotten how good we have it @DorisBlue
- Someone's got Covid fever, it makes you chat shite. @cookster
- Bye then @Stickwell
- Lay off the drugs mate @M12Blue
- Jesus wept , Vassell and Cole over Sterling and Mahrez , go and have a lie down. @jimmygrimblesboots
- It'll end the danger of me ending up sat next to you at least. @blueparrot
- If you’re being serious you might as well walk away now. I suspect you’re on the wind up though. @west didsblue
- Yeah you're right, that Pearce team would batter this current Pep team. @Quagmire blue
- In fairness Tony, you caught a few with that. :) @BongoBlue
- Not sure we need fans like you, maybe it's best you do stop supporting city, you sound like a right slapped arse @peace frog
- Feck me, give your head a wobble or do like you say, walk away @IBlue
- Lol really who do you support ? And dont say City.... @give it to gordon
- Bye @BringBackSwales
- David Conn? @supersonicblue
- You must be a miserable old git...:) @Mancity1980
- I thought we were excellent 1st half mate. I'm surprised at your criticisms. Our possession and speed of moving the ball around was 1st rate. I think we got tired later on, and they brought on Lundstrum, their best midfielder. Rodri I thought had a great game. Our defence is looking like a solid outfit. @nimrod
- Ever considered happy pills? @Centurions
- Jog on then! Dont let the door slam on your way out. @applecentral
- Don’t make a noise when you shut the door. @toffee balls
- You are a bundle of laughs. Pep is being very shrewd and trying to protect his squad as we are playing two games a week at the moment. I will take a clean sheet every day, the goals will start flowing if we stay solid at the back. @Gray
- So you prefer Andy Fuckin Cole over Sterling. The most moronic post of the week, month, year, goes to you. Ta ta. @Sky Blue
- Trolling of the highest order, I salute you sir. And I'm sure you're feeling nice and full after several feedings :) @ActonBlue
- Hahahaha - I bet in Salford you were glad that citeh had that team - good bit of research there. How can you walk away when you’ve never been here in the first place @CC1
- Off you pop then,you wont be fucking missed. @salford blue 62
- You may be as well sticking to the hurling and Gaelic Football in that case. @jimharri
- What bait are you using? @Gingers Dad
- Hey now, ya fucker - don't forget leave out Mpenza and Sibierski. @Wretched Vengeance

I've been on Man City forums since the days of MCIVTA emails. Nearly 30 years. I have shared personal details and thought that got to "know" others. I used to enjoy posting but now I'm generally "afraid" to. I certainly learned a lesson from my last post.

No doubt I'll get more abuse from a few but I can assure you that I am a City Supporter.
Click to expand...
No idea why you quoted my totally innocuous reply.

You seem a little sensitive to be on a footy forum.
 
domalino said:
If you are going to walk away, walk away. Don't turn up after every loss to tell us how that was the final straw, you're done with football... only to pop up in the next post match thread to say the same thing.

For what it's worth, I still think complaining that we're shitter than during the Pearce days when we're going to book out place in the Last 16 of the Champions League on Wednesday, and are 5 points off the top of the league if we win our game in hand is a load of melodramatic nonsense.
Click to expand...
What I said was that I am enjoying our recent games less then I did during the Pearce days and that the players then were less frustrating. And I added today to try to explain what I meant by "walking away" was that it's not just because of how we play - it's also how football has changed over the past year or two. There have been plenty of threads asking people about the same subject.

I wanted to show too that opinions are harder to share now then they were before.

I won't keep beating the same drum.
 
sir baconface said:
No idea why you quoted my totally innocuous reply.

You seem a little sensitive to be on a footy forum.
Click to expand...
I quoted all of the replies. And I said above that some were decent or funny. There was no problem with your reply. It was the fairest of the lot imo.
 
TonyM said:
I quoted all of the replies. And I said above that some were decent or funny. There was no problem with your reply. It was the fairest of the lot imo.
Click to expand...
Fair enough mate.

The forum can be unforgiving so it’s a question of gauging likely reactions before (or quickly after!) pressing the button. Otherwise be prepared to fight your corner.

On this occasion you posted a view that would predictably be seen as cranky, if not provocative. You’re perfectly entitled to that opinion, of course, but the flak was only to be expected. FWIW, I thought nearly all the replies were within normal bounds of acceptabilty.

Anyway, don’t let it put you off. We’ve all been called ****s at some time for an unpopular view or misjudged post :)
 
Our Pressure/pressing when we lose the ball. We don’t sustain attacks like we used too. The first half against wolves is when we did it and we should of been 3/4 up at half time. We’ve barely done it since.. maybe Marseille away. But if your defensive line is 50 yards up the pitch and then you don’t press when you lose it, you can’t argue when we concede these counter attack goals
 
We don't have a link from the midfield to the front three. Silva used to be able to play in tight spaces, nobody can do that now. Foden could, but at the moment he gives the ball away too much.

Also think we would better with Gundo at six instead of Rodri, we need to move the ball quicker in the middle
 
twosips said:
Worth adding that my point wasn't that some of those players aren't good. They are. They're just not as effective in the same way as the previous incumbents i don't think.
Click to expand...
It’s not really about the individuals, it’s the general quality of the collection of them that is seeing us decline.
 
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